3/10/91 8:01:05 PM Opening "chat0310" for recording. EDUCATION... EDUCATION CONFERENCES Sunday, March 10 @ 8 pm ACOT: Apple Classroom of Tomorrow; Guests Dave Kittleso AFL Gayle : Well, I guess we'll get started. Dave, will you tell us a little bit about ACOTScott : The "Gophers" didn't make it :) BE Dave : I have nine sets of photos. AFL Gayle : ACOT first, before we open for questions? ACOTScott : I guess that is going to be my part :) AFL Gayle : Mary and Lavonne, we have one free hour to give away tonight, so ask your questions after Thelma does her part. :) BE Dave : Thanks, Thelma. ACOTScott : Apple Classrooms of Tomorrow (ACOT) is a research and development project that explores AFA Bard : Hiya Lavonne! (I have 11 photos + Mary's incredible disk extravagenza.) ACOTScott : new opportunities for learning when children and teachers have ready access to technology. We are delighted to share with you this evening an overview as seen through the eyes of one of the site coordinators, Dave Kittleson from the Blue Earth, Minnesota. Dave taught the first ACOT Classroom at Blue Earth, and has been a participant since the beginning of the project. He is certainly well qualified to answer your questions. We always want to be informal in our discussions of ACOT We are also privileged to have other ACOT personnel in our audience. Dave will have plenty of help answering your questions, so here is your opportunity to learn AFA Bard : Welcome Cathy!, Red!, Brofo! ACOTScott : everything you have always wanted to know about ACOT. Dave, it is all yours!!!!!!!! Brofo : Even'n, Bard. BE Dave : Thanks, Thelma. Blue Earth had a very forward thinking principal when I came on staff in 1980. He had written his masters thesis on computers in the classroom in the late 70's, so when the time came to put them in the schools, he was primed. We started with Ataris, then switched to Apples. BE Dave : In 1984 we got a grant from the state of MN to be a technology demonstration site. We "computerized a fourth grade classroom and had hundreds of visitors from around the state. BE Dave : The first director, Martin Engel, heard that there was a site in MN with a classroom of computers, so BE Dave : we were asked to apply to be an ACOT classroom. I was teaching 5th grade and inherited (sp) that room RedB2 : THIS IS MY FIRST VIEWING ON ONLINE... I'll just watch for a while. BE Dave : I taught in the ACOT classroom for 2 years before we expanded to include all our fifth and 6th grade BE Dave : classrooms. We currently have 7 classrooms with a high degree of technology. Mostly Apple II's but slowly adding Macs. BE Dave : Maybe I've rambled on long enough with the history. I'm currently coordinating the program in Blue BE Dave : Earth. I'm also the technology specialist for the district so I work some with K-12 teachers. BE Dave : Questions? MaryEz : How much direct instruction is done and how much is exploratory on the part of kids? Do you have a AFL Gayle : Would you introduce our other ACOT guest, please, Dave, and then we'll open for questions? AFL Gayle : Go ahead with Mary's question. MaryEz : technology curriculum or do you use technology across all curriculum areas? ACOTScott : ACOT Cathy, Cathy Ringstaff, is with the ACOT research team. BE Dave : Cathy Ringstaff is here. She is a researcher. AFA Bard : Welcome Cathy! ACOTScott : She is from Cupertino office. ACOT Cathy: Hi, everyone. BE Dave : We work with integrating technology into all curriculum areas. AFC Tooter: Hi Cathy. BE Dave : We don't have a separate technology curriculum. LavonneS : Hi Cathy and RedB2 AFL Gayle : (For the newcomers, we have one free hour to give away tonight. You need to say the secret word we are looking for in a question.) Brofo : Dave, I've done some reading about Blue Earth, and find the whole project to be fascinating... My Q. MaryEz : Do you use interactive multimedia? LavonneS : What kind of ratio computers to children in each classroom? and how about primary levels? Brofo : for you is, what is the ultimate objective, if any, for BE, and how do you see this being accomplished ? BE Dave : We are using a Macintosh with a Pioneer 4200 laserdisc player in the ACOT classrooms. We use the same setup in the high school. Primarily using GTV, BioSci II, Animal Pathfinders right now. BE Dave : In the ACOT classrooms we have one computer per student in the 5th grade, but it's not required. BE Dave : The computers are Apple II's. In the 6th grade there is one computer for every 2-3 students. But ACOT Cathy: At the other ACOT sites, the ratio has changed from one computer per child to fewer. BE Dave : we're focusing on what happens when students have access to technology, not necessarily 1-1. AFC Tooter: Is that because oif cost or was the ration unnecessary? ACOT Cathy: The change was brought about because it appeared that students often learned more by working together LavonneS : I teach spec ed and dream for the day of 1 computer per 2 students BE Dave : We've found that the "way" teachers teach doesn't necessarily have to change if you have 1-1. AFC Tooter: Is the implication there that you weant teachers to change their styles? BE Dave : Sometimes I think the "way" teaching occurs does need to change. But there are times when it's most BE Dave : efficient if all students have the technology readily available. ACOT Cathy: But Dave, don't we WANT teachers to change? BE Dave : Yes, that's what I'm saying. (Are we arguing?) ACOT Cathy: I don't know :-) AFC Tooter: Don't fight. All I sought was clarification. ;) ACOTScott : :) AFA Bard : Cathy... what type of research has been done with ACOT.. any studies on the effect of the technology ACOT Cathy: I think the whole idea is to provide the amount of technology that meets the needs of particular AFA Bard : "immersion" on student achievement? The results? ACOT Cathy: teachers in particular contexts. AFC Tooter: Good question! BE Dave : Well put, Cathy. I agree with you on that one. ACOT Cathy: Yes, there are studies going on through UCLA. Hard to summarize the results. The problem is measuring AFC Tooter: Politically safe. ACOT Cathy: changes that wouldn't show up on standardized tests. RedB2 : Is this forum made up of school teachers? ACOT Cathy: I'm not a political animal! AFA Bard : So you're saying that no significant change in measurable skills was achieved? Was that one of AFL Gayle : Such as what kinds of changes, Cathy? AFA Bard : the goals of the project in its inception? AFL Gayle : Red, this is a chat of people who are interested in education, not ACOT Cathy: UCLA has researchers measuring self-esteem, empowerment, writing abilities, etc. AFL Gayle : necessarily just teachers. AFA Bard : Ahh! Great! How about writing.. what have you found? AFL Gayle : Are those results available in print form, Cathy? AFA Bard : (Welcome Matt!) ACOT Cathy: I'm sure there were measurable changes. However, the changes were not extreme. I believe they are LavonneS : Are the UCLA researchers traveling or in California for study? ACOT Cathy: available from Maryl Gearhart or Eva Baker. ACOT Cathy: The researchers collect data from each site, but are based at UCLA. ACOT Cathy: My area of research is in teacher change, not student outcomes. AFL Gayle : Are Maryl and Eva with Apple or UCLA? Brofo : Have you noticed a difference in results between the usage of Apple IIs and Macs? ACOT Cathy: UCLA. MFJpsy : Are there any Special Ed students in these classrooms? Interested in their ACOT Cathy: They are funded by a grant from ACOT to do research. MFJpsy : empowerment and self-esteem here! :) BE Dave : We have special education students in our ACOT classrooms in Blue Earth, but haven't singled them ACOT Cathy: The children generally seem to like Macs better, but who can blame them! BE Dave : out for any studies. ACOT Cathy: There are also special ed students at the Memphis ACOT site. MFJpsy : Glad to see they're included in BOTH ways! :) :) :) AFC Tooter: Careful, this IS the APPLE II forum (he says from his Mac). ACOTScott : Nashville has a classroom of Special Education students at their site. ACOT Cathy: I personally feel that computers can make a huge difference with special education students. AFA Bard : How about teacher empowerment, Cathy. With just a few computers here, we've noticed a difference. :) ACOT Cathy: But I have no data! LavonneS : I KNOW it makes THE difference for many spec ed students! ACOT Cathy: One problem I think is wrong with Macs is the lack of good software for educational purposes. ACOT Cathy: Ah, data. BE Dave : Do you think that will change soon with the advent of the LC, Cathy. ACOT Cathy: Forgive my ignorance. What's the LC? LavonneS : What kind of control groups are they studying? BE Dave : Mac LC? ACOT Cathy: Oh. I never pay much attention to Apple's new stuff...I've never even seen one. MaryEz : Has anyone figured out how to measure the things that are evident in kids that use computers all the MaryEz : time and those who don't? MaryEz : Is confidence a measurable thing? ACOT Cathy: There are lots of different studies going on. They are funded through ACOT but carried out by research ACOT Cathy: ers all over the country. LavonneS : Also what difference in those students who choose to use or not use computers ACOT Cathy: I think confidence fits in with self-esteem measures. ACOTScott : Mary, that is one of the hardest things for the researchers to do. :) ACOT Cathy: A lot of what's going on with measuring the impact of ACOT has to do with portfolios. AFA Bard : For those that just joined us: ACOT is Apple Classroom of Tomorrow. :) LavonneS : What area of curriculum are they looking at most? Writing?? ACOT Cathy: The control groups are usually classes within the same school or district. ACOT Cathy: Writing is a big emphasis, because research has already shown what a big impact computers have ACOT Cathy: on that particular skill. BE Dave : I think communication would be more accurate than writing. ACOT Cathy: The work I'm personally doing is looking at teacher change--their beliefs, their instructional BE Dave : We are emphasizing in our students all the ways to communicate an idea or information. Writing, video ACOT Cathy: practices, their utilization of students as experts. LavonneS : Right, I see communication as the bigger picture BE Dave : hypermedia, speeches. ACOTScott : Confidence is another thing that cannot be measured accurately, but we see so much improvement there. AFL Gayle : Cathy, could you tell us a little bit about what you have found about teacher change? MaryEz : That's what I see. But how to document it is the question? ACOT Cathy: Change is very slow and seems to be a bit of an evolutionary process... BE Dave : It doesn't take long for students to get more proficient with a computer application than the teacher. ACOT Cathy: At first, teachers use the computers for the same old drill and practice stuff. ACOT Cathy: Eventually, they begin to change their approach, but often vacillate between the traditional and the innovative. AFC Tooter: With all the technology at BE and other sites, what kind of non-tech staff development occurs? Drawrof2 : With the advent of authentic assessment, products such as those found in portfolios will be clearly Drawrof2 : assist in the documentation necessary. ACOT Cathy: There's a lot of staff support from ACOT--workshops on constructivism, for example, or portfolio ACOT Cathy: development. LavonneS : Are the computers linked by networks within a classroom, or by building or LavonneS : by district? ACOT Cathy: It depends on the site.Drawrof2 is from Stockton, CA. BE Dave : Each room is networked, and the teachers are networked in Blue Earth. ACOTScott : Blue Earth is unique in that the school is the district :) AFC Tooter: What about computers at home for students and teachers? BE Dave : We have one Appleshare network in the ACOT and three Corvus systems. ACOT Cathy: When they first started, each child at some of the sites got a home computer. Now, not all do. AFC Tooter: Any reason? ACOT Cathy: I think the change was due to the fact that there wasn't enough support to use the home computers ACOT Cathy: as well as they could have been. BE Dave : We have sent a IIc home with sixth graders the last few years, but we're going to redistribute some next year. LavonneS : Are they using modems and distance learning? ACOT Cathy: Don't quote me, however! ACOT Cathy: At Memphis, distance learning was a big thing for awhile...Thelma knows about that. BE Dave : They aren't using modems at home, but we do use them at school. Primarily A-Line. BE Dave : GA Thelma. ACOTScott : Each site now uses distant learning from the classroom. Even in Memphis, not every student has a modem now. ACOTScott : At one time, each ACOT student did, but when parents ACOTScott : do not know much technology, it can also present problems. BE Dave : We use Applelink to communicate between ACOT sites. BE Dave : as well as A-Line ACOT Cathy: Some kids in Memphis didn't even have phones! ACOTScott : Yes, that was a problem :) AFC Tooter: No phones!!!! ACOT Cathy: Hard to believe, but true. LavonneS : Is there parent workshops, or other parent involvement? BE Dave : Sounds like our classrooms a few years ago. AFC Tooter: No TV? ACOTScott : Remember the population of the school in Memphis, inner city. ACOT Cathy: Don't know about the tv ACOTScott : Oh, plenty of TV :) ACOT Cathy: At Cupertino, the site I work most closely with now, their is lots of parent involvement because all the parents are computer types. ACOTScott : and Boom Boxes ACOT Cathy: Sometimes, too much involvement, according to the teachers :-) AFC Tooter: And Nintendos, no doubt.The file has been transferred. BE Dave : Who coordinates the parent volunteers in Cupertino? ACOTScott : :) ACOT Cathy: I'm not sure. It's probably done by the teachers. I know the 1st grade teachers has lots of them. ACOT Cathy: But Cupertino is a unique place, educationally and otherwise. AFA Bard : Overall... how do the teachers feel about the ACOT program, Cathy? BE Dave : We'd like to utilize parents more. AFC Tooter: Are there teachers who find real problems utilizing the technology? Untitled 1 ACOTScott : Parent volunteers are always greater in the lower grades. ACOT Cathy: I think they love it. (And I'm not being paid to say that!). Many would have trouble going back MaryEz : We use parent volunteers in my classes but some classes have none and others are tripping over them ACOT Cathy: to a traditional classroom. LavonneS : What unique scheduling if any has been necessary? ACOT Cathy: I don't know anything about the scheduling. Sorry. BE Dave : We have two team teaching situations. One is a husband-wife team. That's unique, I'd say. ACOTScott : Memphis, did the community type scheduling. BE Dave : We're also able to take advantage of a lot of interdisciplinary opportunities,being in the elem. ACOT Cathy: I think that the teachers often have trouble utilizing the technology in innovative ways. ACOT Cathy: Utilizing the technology is fairly easy, but doing it well is another story. AFA Bard : After looking at the research, Cathy, which is more effective - computer labs or 1:1 computer access AFA Bard : in a classroom? LavonneS : Are any of the sites using cooperative learning techniques? BE Dave : Curriculum doesn't change easily or quickly. It changes slowly, like teachers. AFC Tooter: 1:1 computer access in a classroom is a lab. ACOT Cathy: Neither. I think that somewhere in between. Perhaps a computer for 2 to 3 kids. Not a lab... ACOT Cathy: If the teachers have to leave the classroom to go to a lab, it doesn't work. ACOT Cathy: I think all the sites uses cooperative learning, to different extents. ACOTScott : Having technology available is the key. ACOT Cathy: Not only available, but very easily accessible. AFA Bard : And available at the time you need it, with the right software, and the right coaching - a tall AFA Bard : order sometimes! BE Dave : Easily accessible is the key. If the lab is across the hall and available, it's good, I think. ACOTScott : There have never been easy answers in education. ACOT Cathy: How true, Thelma! AFA Bard : You said it Thelma! AFC Tooter: Easy anser for us = $$$$$$ AFC Tooter: Then come the tough questions. AFC Tooter: anser =answer LavonneS : We were asked, could we give up paraprofessionals for computers. It was a Drawrof2 : An educational system which not only measures meaning-centered learning, but also teaches in that LavonneS : retorical quiestion but raised a level of understanding of budget restraints ACOTScott : I am sure that if any of you are ever in Blue Earth, Dave would be pleased to show you his school. BE Dave : I give the tours. :) ACOTScott : You might see some of the answers that you need. ACOT Cathy: But don't go in the winter. AFC Tooter: Do the kids who go through ACOT programs wind up more technologically oriented than artistically? ACOTScott : Oh, I enjoyed it even in the winter. BE Dave : The cross country skiiing is good. MaryEz : What kinds of software do you use most? ACOTScott : You California people love the warm weather too much :) Drawrof2 : will best serve our students ACOT Cathy: I don't think we know the answer to that, yet. AFL Gayle : Drawof2, did you have a question you wanted to ask? ACOT Cathy: At the high school level, they use tool software. ACOT Cathy: In the lower grades, they use a wide variety of stuff. Word processing, drill and practice... AFA Bard : tool as in WP, DB, DTP and SS? LavonneS : Using HyperCard or HyperStudio? Drawrof2 : It has been estimated that in the year 2000 95% of all jobs will be in service industries ACOT Cathy: Yes, Bard. ACOT Cathy: Hypercard is also being used in the lower grades, now. Drawrof2 : and will require knowledge of computers and other information technologies If we can't convince the public to provide resources for public educators BE Dave : We use Hypercard, Tutor Tech, and Hyperstudio. But this is the first year we've introduced all students to it. Drawrof2 : to teach our students in a way which will prepare them for that world, ACOT Cathy: The tool software is being used in very exciting ways. Drawrof2 : then someone like IBM will do it, fer sure. LavonneS : Are you getting multimedia reports? BE Dave : IBM ACOT Cathy: It doesn't matter who does it, Apple or IBM, but it will be done. ACOTScott : :) AFA Bard : LOL, Dave! True! TEACHER ms: LOL AFC Tooter: What kinds of exciting ways, Cathy? MaryEz : It's dirty work, but someone has to do it;) Drawrof2 : Hopefully in a public educational setting.:) BE Dave : We use IBM compatibles to do magazine searches in the library, I shouldn't be so biased. ACOT Cathy: The students in Cupertino are being to do multimedia reports. Can't say about the other sites. ACOTScott : There are many ways that budgets can be trimmed, but that would be another AED conference. BE Dave : Multimedia reports using interactive laserdiscs? ACOT Cathy: Well, it's hard to go into detail here... AFC Tooter: Yes, Thelma. In our district they are in the first phase of replacing all classes with study halls. BE Dave : We have students creating reports in Tutor Tech and making video projects in fifth and sixth grade. ACOT Cathy: Students are creating databases in science, for example. Learning spreadsheets... AFC Tooter: A recent article complained of the shift from text to graphics and the resulting loss of literacy. AFC Tooter: Any comment? ACOT Cathy: BS AFC Tooter: Thanks. AFA Bard : :) AFL Gayle : Short, but sweet. ;) LavonneS : So maybe they want to stay with the typewriter !! AFC Tooter: Put that question to rest. AFL Gayle : OK. It's time to announce our winner for tonight. LavonneS won one free hour fo ACOT Cathy: I'm a psychologist, and I know that some kids just learn better with graphics then words. For once, AFL Gayle : for the word curriculum. AFL Gayle : Applause ACOT Cathy: maybe these children will have the opportunity to excel. LavonneS : Thanks!!! ACOT Cathy: Congratulations. AFC Tooter: See a real expert at work Lavonne hooray!!! AFL Gayle : Drawof2 won one hour for the word assessment. BE Dave : Congrats, Lavonne. AFL Gayle : Applause AFA Bard : ()()()()()()()!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Lavonne! MaryEz : Yea!! Lavonne AFA Bard : Drawof2 won FREE HOUR!! Yea! AFC Tooter: Moof Yea Drawof. AFL Gayle : A BIG thanks to our guests tonight, Dave, Cathy, and Thelma! :))) AFA Bard : Congrats! Drawrof2 : Thanks so much:) BE Dave : Hurray for Drawof2. ACOT Cathy: When my boss sees my AOL bill, he'll ask me why I didn't win. ACOTScott : It was our pleasure. AFL Gayle : Our topic next week will be Innovative Projects for Teaching Social Studies ACOTScott : We are always glad to talk about ACOT :) LavonneS : This was a great chat AFL Gayle : with Ira Garvin. ACOT Cathy: Thanks, everyone. AFC Tooter: Thanks so much. This was very valuable. Hope you'll come back again soon. BE Dave : I enjoyed it. LavonneS : I would like to hear more from the people doing research AFA Bard : Ira's GREAT.. ya'll come by next week at 8 pm ET. :) AFL Gayle : Cathy, do you have an address of where to get more information from the UCLA AFL Gayle : researchers? ACOT Cathy: Send me some E-mail with your address and I'll get you more information. TEACHER ms: Yep, Ira is very interesting !!! AFL Gayle : Thanks. :) AFA Bard : Thanks to all the ACOT folks for a GREAT chat! MaryEz : Can anyone give me resources about writing and computers? We don't have a electronic lab at our MaryEz : high school!! MaryEz : Writing lab, that is. ACOT Cathy: Mary, send me your address and I can see what I can do for you. AFL Gayle : TooT has one, Mary. Check out the log from last week. MaryEz : OK Thanks. MaryEz : Research backup is what I'm looking for. ACOT Cathy: Bye, everyone. If any of you want more information about ACOT, just drop me some E-mail. AFC Tooter: did I miss something. I see my name. MaryEz : Don't ever turn away Tooter, you might miss something!!Your mail has been sent AFC Tooter: Oh Mary. Come visit! AFC Tooter: NCTE approved! MaryEz : I'm looking for research articles that show the importance of computers in writing! LavonneS : Mary, just tell your principal to take your word for its value :)!Your mail has been sent AFC Tooter: Bring him with you for the visit. MaryEz : It's not my principal. It's the high school. I have all the support I need at 5th/6th but nothing MaryEz : above me. AFA Bard : G'night folks! BTW.. I HIGHLY recommend a Toot visit... he's GREAT company! AFA Bard : :)) AFC Tooter: He'll see students from all courses writing. LavonneS : Seriously, I too would like a bibliography of any such research available. AFC Tooter: Mary and I have already visited, Bard. AFA Bard : Aha! MaryEz : We have a great thing going{:> 3/10/91 9:11:18 PM Closing file.