AFL Wiggy : Welcome tto the Apple II Education Forum and tonight's AFL Wiggy : conference feature questions and answers about the AFL Wiggy : two best know Apple II hypermedia products, AFL Wiggy : HyperStudio and Tutor-Tech. Before we start, I would AFL Wiggy : like to make a quick announcement. AFL Wiggy : I would like to apologize to people for my lack of AFL Wiggy : responsiveness in the last week. I suffered a loss in AFL Wiggy : my family and Gayle Keresey, the assistant here in AED AFL Wiggy : is layed up, so things have slowed up a bit. I would AFL Wiggy : like to thank AFL FrankD and AFL Marty for helping out AFL Wiggy : during this time. AFL Wiggy : I would also like to thank GerryR5 for agreeing to AFL Wiggy : help out here in AED. She will be helping out in AFL Wiggy : answering messages on the board. Of course, if you AFL Wiggy : see a question posted and you can answer it, I urge AFL Wiggy : you to help us all out by posting the answer! :) AFL Wiggy : And now, back to the conference... AFL Wiggy : AFL Wiggy : The best way to think of hypermedia is to think of AFL Wiggy : index cards which have information (text, sounds, or AFL Wiggy : drawings). In order to move through the information, AFL Wiggy : the user can press buttons. These buttons, depending AFL Wiggy : on the intent of the author, can move you forward, AFL Wiggy : backwards, randomly, or to any other card in the stack AFL Wiggy : of index cards. AFL Wiggy : Tonight we will be discussing different programs that AFL Wiggy : allow you to author such stacks. Dave Lampert, the AFL Wiggy : author of Tutor-Tech is with us tonight to answer any AFL Wiggy : questions about his product. Tutor-Tech is the one AFL Wiggy : HyperCard-like application for the IIe, IIc, and IIgs AFL Wiggy : computers. Welcome, Dave! DLampert : Thanks, Jim. AFL Wiggy : Also here tonight is Roger Wagner, developer of Hyper- AFL Wiggy : Studio, perhaps the most talked about new product to AFL Wiggy : hit the IIgs market. HyperStudio 2.0 has just been AFL Wiggy : released and its capabilities are staggering! AFL Wiggy : Welcome to AED, Roger! :) RWagnerInc: Glad to be here! AFL Wiggy : Rather than waste time with me discussing the products AFL Wiggy : using macros, I think it would be better if we all had AFL Wiggy : a chance to ask the questions we need answered. We do AFL Wiggy : not like to use protocol here in AED; if you would AFL Wiggy : like to ask a question or make a comment, feel free! AFL Wiggy : Of course, it is important to let the person asking or AFL Wiggy : answering a question to finish before jumping in. I AFL Wiggy : am done now... Are there any questions??? AFL FrankD: It's EASY! Mark1001 : This one's for both... Do either plan to include a HyperTalk-like system language? AFL Wiggy : Good question! DLampert : Tutor-Tech will in 3.0... DLampert : We are developing that, but (as you might have guessed)... DLampert : we have not announced a definite release date. DLampert : We want to make HyperCard... DLampert : completely compat with TT eventually. GA RWagnerInc: ok, RWagnerInc: At this point, although we've talked about scripting language, theres RWagnerInc: no specific plans for a scripting language. In talking to RWagnerInc: people with experience with HyperCard on the Mac, we find RWagnerInc: that most people ask about scripting because you can't do RWagnerInc: very much in HC w/o it. HyperStudio, on the other hand, RWagnerInc: is "auto-scripting". That is, although there is an internal RWagnerInc: structure equivalent to a script, we tried very hard to RWagnerInc: create a system where the creator of the stack would never RWagnerInc: have to deal with programming to do things like add a RWagnerInc: sound, animation, etc. If you really do have something RWagnerInc: that requieres a language, HyperStudio's Xcmds can be RWagnerInc: written in assembly language, pascal, C or any GS RWagnerInc: language. So in that regard, HyperStudio already has a RWagnerInc: language - any one you like! The key idea here is that RWagnerInc: we want HyperStudio to be accessable to everyone, and to RWagnerInc: have a system where you can quickly create stacks in HS that RWagnerInc: would take much more effort in HC. If there is anybody RWagnerInc: here tonight that has used both HyperStudio and HC, perhaps RWagnerInc: they could comment on their experience. ga DLampert : I personally like the idea of HyperTalk, no recompiling needed. AFL Wiggy : I have used HC, HS, and TT... It took me days to produce my first HC AFL Wiggy : stack. It took me only minutes to produce my first stacks with HS and TT. AFL Wiggy : And very little time at all (literally minutes) to produce my first tutor-Tech and HyperStudio stacks. AFL Wiggy : I see that as the real plus for these systems... AFL Wiggy : The fact that a teacher can sit down and make up a tutorial in minutes is quite a bonus. Soko : Dave, I have heard rumors of a TT stack "translator" T or F & How will it work DLampert : You mean translate from HC to TT? Soko : Yeah if that is how it will go or vice versa DLampert : Once we achieve a Hyper-Talk-like scripting lang.... DLampert : we plan in the same software to offer the ability to import... DLampert : a HC stack directly from a Mac disk. Sound interesting?... AFL Wiggy : Yep! Soko : Too good to be true -- good luck with it DLampert : We need that Hyper-Talk scripting platform first... DLampert : Then, the questions are, how to bring over pictures.... Cobow : Converter? DLampert : We'll probably have options to scale/keep size/etc. GA Cobow : Converter? Soko : Roger Wagner Graphics Exchange of course.... Cobow : Of course. AFL Wiggy : Dave, what other new features will Tutor-Tech 3.0 have on it??? Does Tutor-Tech have XCMDs as well? DLampert : Next you'll probably ask for MacroMind Director on an Apple II. DLampert : XCMDs... DLampert : XCMDs will formally exist with 3.0... DLampert : Just as you'd expect (like HC). DLampert : 3.0 will have many new features... JamesB148 : upgrade if I get teh older one from the software company DLampert : Including full screen graphics, floating toolbox,... DLampert : enhanced drawing / painting tools, GS fonts, ... JamesB148 : I have Tutor tech on order now which ver do you think it will be how to upgrade JamesB148 : and if I get an older one how to upgrade? DLampert : James, we're shipping 2.6 now... DLampert : when 3.0 ships (you shouldn't wait)... AFL Wiggy : I like honesty in a company! :) DLampert : then we'll tell you, so you can upgrade... DLampert : This is how it'll work... DLampert : You send back you're original disks and $34,... DLampert : and we'll send you the complete shipping update (3.0),... DLampert : as if you had paid the full price... DLampert : Even if the price goes up, the $34 is guaranteed to update. DLampert : How's that for updating? GA Cobow : NICE. AFL Wiggy : Can you both explain your site license policy for schools? Roger first, this time! :) AFL Wiggy : (For present versions) RWagnerInc: Our site license is a minimum purchase of 5 units. Price then is... RWagnerInc: $75 per computer with all hardware. After the 1st 5 units,Date: 89-11-19 20:23:24 EST RWagnerInc: if you want other units w/o hardware, they can be licensedRe: AdLit Chat 11/20EFC Bill RWagnerInc: for $45 per system. HyperStudio is AppleShare and hard RWagnerInc: disk compatible. ga DLampert : Tutor-Tech is focused on education... DLampert : the basic package comes with a 'site' license to copy.... DLampert : the runtime disk for up to 50 computers.... DLampert : or even put it on a network like AppleShare of up to 50 computers...Your mail has been sent DLampert : No extra charge! RWagnerInc: Dave - I presume they can use the authoring disk on the RWagnerInc: 50 also? ga DLampert : If you want to have students or many teachers creating stacks.... DLampert : then our cost-effective site license for $200 additional... DLampert : allows you to copy the program disk also, or use it on AppleSHare.... DLampert : That's $4 per computer. This is a very popular package in the DLampert : field of education, K-12. GA AFL Wiggy : If you would like to ask more questions about AFL Wiggy : Tutor-Tech or HyperStudio, you can leave a message in AFL Wiggy : the Direct Connect area here in AED. Both the AFL Wiggy : Tutor-Tech and Roger Wagner areas have message boards AFL Wiggy : and Libraries. A demo of Tutor-Tech is available in AFL Wiggy : its Stack Exchange library. DLampert : Everyone, you should really download the TT demo... DLampert : it has TT right on it (except no Save feature). Lampert : We've got TT SIGS working on neat stuff... some of those stacks... DLampert : to surface here soon, hopefully... DLampert : they are heavy into foreign lang. lessons now... DLampert : TT already offers the full Mac int'l char. set with same keystrokes... DLampert : and now we support the Echo and the NEW Tutor-Talk device.... DLampert : Tutor-TALK was developed by a co. in Miami for Tutor-Tech specifically... DLampert : it allows a stack to control a tape cassette.... DLampert : and the voice is perfectly clear (compared to digitized).... DLampert : and no memory gets used up fast either....! DLampert : This device is connected thru the gameport and you can send commands to it... DLampert : just like any videodisc player... GA JamesB148 : I have a sonic blaster do I have to remove for your hardware h-studio? JamesB148 : whatr will I be missing if I did not use your hardware? RWagnerInc: No. The HyperStudio digitizer card has a "piggy-back" RWagnerInc: ok... RWagnerInc: 1) The HyperStudio digitizer has a piggy-back connector on it, RWagnerInc: so you can still use another card in the computer at RWagnerInc: the same time. JamesB148 : then it would connect to the sonic blaster ? RWagnerInc: word processor files. After we finish w/ James' Qs, let's RWagnerInc: talk more about that. The HS digitizer connects to the RWagnerInc: Sonic Blaster fine, and can also use Sonic Blaster RWagnerInc: sound files. RWagnerInc: ga JamesB148 : GA and thanks DLampert : Roger, I don't want to get on your case, but when will HS... DLampert : work with the Pioneer 2000 (like TT)? RWagnerInc: ... RWagnerInc: 1) We are working on a way to have the video disc players RWagnerInc: supported with driver files, instead of built in as they RWagnerInc: now are, but I don't have any specific dates for that. For RWagnerInc: the moment, having a Pioneer 2000 or any other video disc RWagnerInc: player not supported by HS would be a reason to use TT. ... DLampert : Wow, did Roger say that? AFL FrankD: Yep, he's a nice guy! :) RWagnerInc: (sure Roger said that - I like Tutor-Tech!) ga DLampert : Can we quote you in our next ad? RWagnerInc: DL - Heck, I've offered to pay for half the ad myself! ga DLampert : :) AFL Wiggy : You heard it here first, folks!!! Cobow : We did! RWagnerInc: ... Jim Corbin: I have a problem with HS (current ver) and reading AW2.1 files.... Jim Corbin: When I try to read in an AW2.1 file my system 'hangs' and I have to reboot. RWagnerInc: Email me the specific file you're trying to load, and I can see RWagnerInc: if there's something specific in it. .. Jim Corbin: I've tried numerous files always get the same results. Soko : The next time you guys are at a conference like Afest, why dont you go out to Soko : dinnertle or two of wine & come up Soko : with a way to make HS = TT and vice versa!] AFL Wiggy : :) RWagnerInc: By the way, RWagnerInc: I'd like to mention before I forget, that there is a HS RWagnerInc: Demo set of disks, available from any (friendly) Authorized RWagnerInc: Apple dealer, RWP directly (for $10), or, hopefully, here RWagnerInc: on AO soon. This is a fully functional version of HS, except RWagnerInc: that it doesn't save (great idea DL), and includes a bunch RWagnerInc: of demo stacks to give you ideas. Oh, I remember Q#2 from RWagnerInc: earlier - what people are doing with HS stacks: One of the RWagnerInc: most impressive I know of so far is a school in New York, where RWagnerInc: every student is creating a stack about themselves with RWagnerInc: hobbies, digitized pictures of their family, pets, etc., text RWagnerInc: information about them. Then they're video taping a few RWagnerInc: minutes of each student, and mastering a laser disc from that DLampert : Mastering a laserdisc? What a budget! RWagnerInc: which will then be linked into all the combined stacks for RWagnerInc: a completely interactive project on the school. You can see footage RWagnerInc: of students and their school, hear about them etc. That's being RWagnerInc: shown Dec. 11. Other misc. stacks include a Russian lesson that RWagnerInc: can be downloaded here on AO, a tutorial on the Talmud, RWagnerInc: (About $300, and I think it uses the VOC, but I'm not sure) AFL Wiggy : <---Loves both programs with the VOC! RWagnerInc: lessons on Columbus with digitized pictures of student comments, RWagnerInc: and lots of other goodies. By the way, AO has the best RWagnerInc: variety of online stacks I've seen. If you haven't checked RWagnerInc: out Stack City, do so. RWagnerInc: (one last thing, I don't know the name of the New York project off hand, ... RWagnerInc: but if you call me, I can look up the info) AFL Wiggy : My sixth grade classes are presently authoring two stacks (one HS, the other TT) on the water cycle... AFL Wiggy : Authoring Stacks makes a great class project... we are even scanning pictures that the kds have drawn AFL Wiggy : themselves. DLampert : AO will be a great place to put great stacks (both TT and HS). Soko : <-- Will be applying for a summer teaching grant to teach CT teachers both of Soko : these programs ... hope I get funded AFL Wiggy : Dave... please tell us about the Grading system available with Tutor-Tech. DLampert : Our Gradebook manager is an optional part of TT... DLampert : it offers the teacher a way to track student performance.,... DLampert : on test-stacks made with Tutor-Tech.... DLampert : afterward, it automatically collects scores, grades, plots, and prints... DLampert : it's a fast way to grade a class... superb on AppleShare! GA Mark1001 : I have a question... Mark1001 : About the Tutor-Tech's site license... network for no extra charge? If you can do that and still make Mark1001 : a profit, why do you suppose other publishers charge a standard network charge of 3x retail? DLampert : We have always thought nets are the way of the future.... DLampert : and we will always support them at no extra charge.... DLampert : (Our policy has always charged by COMPUTER, not if you have a net.) DLampert : Yes, the runtime disk in the standard package can be put on a net.... DLampert : without additional charge (we send a net license free). GA AFL Wiggy : Tomorrow night, the Adult Literacy conference will AFL Wiggy : discuss the gradual emergence of "Youth Literacy" as AFL Wiggy : a real issue in American education. Bill Reed will AFL Wiggy : look at issues including extra help with reading and AFL Wiggy : how literacy agencies can work with schools. This AFL Wiggy : event will be here in the AED conference Hall at AFL Wiggy : 9:30 pm EST. AFL Wiggy : Okay... We can continue again... AFL Wiggy : I would like to say that I like both products... AFL Wiggy : I love HyperStudio because of its ability to use the uniques... AFL Wiggy : attributes of the GS... AFL Wiggy : I really like Tutor-Tech for its power as well... and it does a lot more for our school... Since my AFL Wiggy : school has only Apple IIes... AFL Wiggy : I have to bring my GS over when I want to use it... AFL Wiggy : So, I would like to applaud you both for developing products that really make the Apple II a dynamic DLampert : I like HS, too! I wish a IIe-->IIGS upgrade was free! AFL Wiggy : machine... something useful to different people! :) AFL Wiggy : Thank you both for being here tonight... AFL Wiggy : I appreciate your candor and the time you took out of your schedules... DLampert : Thank you, Jim. Let's all meet again soon. Soko : Thanks folks RWagnerInc: free to Email me any additional Qs or comments. AFL FrankD: Roger, do you really NEED your additional digitizer if you have the Sonic Blaster? AFL Wiggy : Yes.. Please remember the Direct Connect area here in AED for questions for both companies! :) DLampert : Also download the TT demo disk (and HS when its on AOL). RWagnerInc: You don't have to have our card if you've got Sonic Blaster, RWagnerInc: although our card may be a quieter recording on some machines. RWagnerInc: Thanks again for inviting me. I'd like to stay later as I RWagnerInc: usually do, but have to run tonight. I'm available here to RWagnerInc: any other questions. Thanks again. ga AFL FrankD: Great. Thought that was the case. Just wanted to clarify that "connect" question of a while back. AFL Wiggy : Thanks for being here, Roger! DLampert : I just remembered: we didn't answers Soko's HS<-->TT question. DLampert : All's possible in the future (blanket statement)! RWagnerInc: I don't have a TT -> HS converter. RWagnerInc: But it's an interesting idea! RWagnerInc: AFL Wiggy : Would love to see HS<--->TT converter! Roger already has the Graphics Exchange part! :) DLampert : Soko, how's TT doing for you? Soko : I have done some playing & got a laser disk stack to run Soko : I hope I get funded this summer to do more Soko : my fall workshop Hypermedia on the Apple`// had 4 people sign up, it will be Soko : cancelled if more don't show this week...... DLampert : Super! Please put stuff out in the TT Stack Exchange so I and all can see.