2/18/90 8:08:03 PM Opening "America Online Log" for recording. AFL Wiggy : AFL Wiggy : Welcome to the Apple II Education Forum and tonight's AFL Wiggy : conference about brainstorming the future of the AFL Wiggy : Apple II Education Forum. Before we start the AFL Wiggy : conference, I have these announcements: AFL Wiggy : The Learning Center is looking for instructors for its AFL Wiggy : individualized learning programs. If you are a AFL Wiggy : teacher and would like to do something more here on AFL Wiggy : America Online, be sure to send email to KellyB1 for AFL Wiggy : more information. And tell her that Jim Wiggenhorn AFL Wiggy : sent you! :) AFL Wiggy : Did you miss last week's conference about telecom AFL Wiggy : projects with the Soviet Union? Be sure to download AFL Wiggy : the 3 files that talk about this project. The Soviet AFL Wiggy : schools are looking for more partner schools in the AFL Wiggy : US and individuals in the USSR are looking for pen AFL Wiggy : pals, also (even adults and family pen pals!). The AFL Wiggy : information is is the New Files library of AED! AFL Wiggy : A personal announcement.... It has been pointed out AFL Wiggy : to me that I do a lot of talking about the computer- AFL Wiggy : phobic teacher but I rarely talk about the computer- AFL Wiggy : competent teacher... Well, it was always a given (at AFL Wiggy : least in my mind) that all of you are at the forefront AFL Wiggy : of computer education... My hat's off to you all; AFL Wiggy : schools need more people like you! Perhaps if we AFL Wiggy : shout just a little louder the powers will hear us! :) AFL Wiggy : And now back to our conference... AFL Wiggy : 3 days ago, I made my first visit to Quantum Computer, AFL Wiggy : the company that produces America Online. Perhaps be- AFL Wiggy : cause of some of the negative things I have read about AFL Wiggy : Quantum in Across the Boards, I was unprepared for the AFL Wiggy : creative and exciting atmosphere that was evident AFL Wiggy : throughout the building. I left Quantum commited even AFL Wiggy : more to working hard here in the Education Forum.... AFL Wiggy : As I began thinking about education related issues and AFL Wiggy : how we can present them, my mind drifted to the other AFL Wiggy : education areas here online; I thought about joint AFL Wiggy : conferences and projects with the Macintosh Education AFL Wiggy : Forum. I thought about the Learning Center and the AFL Wiggy : possibilities it has for expanding education and AFL Wiggy : research to our online community. AFL Wiggy : Some of the ideas I thought about (remembering that AFL Wiggy : when we brainstorm, we aren't allowed to throw out AFL Wiggy : any ideas because of impracticality or cost): AFL Wiggy : * A gateway to KidsNet AFL Wiggy : * A gateway to the Department of Education AFL Wiggy : * School Purchase order billing AFL Wiggy : * An AO school newspaper AFL Wiggy : * Online classes for college credit AFL Wiggy : * Monthly updated Grant information AFL Wiggy : * International school participation AFL Wiggy : * Apple's Education Department really coming online AFL Wiggy : * Finding a way to get students involved!!!! AFL Wiggy : * Finding a way to get more parents involved!!!! AFL Wiggy : I mentioned to the people at Quantum that I would be AFL Wiggy : sending the transcript of this conference to them; in AFL Wiggy : other words, I want them to know what you think is AFL Wiggy : important. We are very lucky that this service is in AFL Wiggy : its infancy. We can have an effect on its future and AFL Wiggy : we can get involved in that future.... We can mold AFL Wiggy : this service so it best fits everybody's needs. AFL Wiggy : Of course, I have nothing to do with the rest of the AFL Wiggy : service and I can only work on the Apple II Education AFL Wiggy : ideas, but it sure is nice to think about the ways AFL Wiggy : that we can make A.O. the one and only service that AFL Wiggy : teachers are ever going to want to use. :) AFL Wiggy : Tonight, as usual, there is no protocol. Do be polite AFL Wiggy : and let others finish before you start. Remember, AFL Wiggy : this conference is a brainstorming session. That AFL Wiggy : means we need to throw out ideas rather than figure AFL Wiggy : out reasons why those ideas are impossible. :) So, AFL Wiggy : I am done now... Does anybody have ideas??? MIDGEF : I wish something could be done about the rates during the school day. BostnFrank: How about planning some 2 hour conferences. AFL Wiggy : Frank... We do have a two hour conference coming up in May... BostnFrank: Good. Topic? AFL Wiggy : The sunday night AppleFest roundup conference will be for two hours. A joint AED/AppleWorks AFL Wiggy : conference. MIDGEF : I showed some 4th graders (hang the expense) how to use the online Encyclopedia AFL Wiggy : I agree, Midge... My students love the encyclopedia. You should have seen how A.O. came in AFL Wiggy : handy during the earthquake... Between the news and the encyclopedia, I did some great teaching. MacTeach : More events for students... contests, online chats, etc. (I agree Midge.. and PO billing!) Soko : Fixed price membership for schools $XXX.XX = YY months/weeks of membership BostnFrank: Yup, cheap school entryways. AFC Tooter: As to cost, some teachers have managed to fund ALine with parent help. MIDGEF : I think the parent suggestion is good I'll log that down MIDGEF : I miss the fun I had at Apple University where I met other teachers BostnFrank: Is there a way student message uploads could be held until sundown, then BostnFrank: run into the system at non-prime rates? AFL Wiggy : Frank... on the Mac, soon (we hope) the messages can be automated to do that. Eventually that will AFL Wiggy : be carried over to the Apple II. (I Hope!!!) BostnFrank: Hoping, dear Quantum, for that gs-specific software, please. :) MIDGEF : I don't work full time (I'm not a real teacher) but kids know when they see MIDGEF : me they get to use the computer AFC Tooter: Just compare ALine with the new MECC service and you'll know which is the AFC Tooter: bargain. MIDGEF : What's MECC up to? AFC Tooter: MECC has there own online service for $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Soko : Ability to back search periodicals, ala Dow Jones, it is a GREAT tool LavonneS : If AO would accept payment by PO so we could get it budgeted easier. AFC Tooter: PO was a big hangup with us. It took an extra six months to get online because AFC Tooter: of no PO billing. We finally convinced everybody that the school could AFC Tooter: have a credit card. It wouldn't have happened without a VERY supportive AFC Tooter: administration! Negotiator: Tooter had to use his own credit account for a time. MIDGEF : Well we'll never see that in Massachusetts BostnFrank: creative billing = bigger market for Quantum. MacTeach : If not PO, then flat rate billing. Your visit to the STRATUS-phere sounds great, Wigs! Soko : Would like to see MECC, Sunburst, Scholastic, and Apple Ed here as direct Soko : connect folks AFL Wiggy : Soko... Apple Ed does have a representative who is online about once a week... (although she is AFL Wiggy : not making a big deal about being from Apple)... AFL Wiggy : Sunburst has refused... and MECC has their own service now. :( MIDGEF : Does anyone know if I can deduct AO on my taxes as an educational expense? AFL Wiggy : Midge... I am not sure. YOu had best ask a Tax consultant. MIDGEF : That's good BostnFrank: Jim, I'm VERY pleased with AO, that's why I pick at them so much. :) AFC Tooter: It it true Wigs that there is a large fountain with naked cupids in the center AFC Tooter: of the people connection lobby? AFL Wiggy : Toot... The cupids are not naked... In true family network fashion, they have little fig leafs. AFL Wiggy : :) AFC Tooter: Shucks! MacTeach : How about a gateway to other (free) educational services like Edunet? MIDGEF : I'm a bit tired..I bought HyperStudio last Friday and I'm absorbed by it BostnFrank: See you next year Midge. :) AFL Wiggy : Midge... Isn't it fun??? :) MIDGEF : It's wonderful but I can't use it at school BostnFrank: Then try tutor-tech. MIDGEF : We bought Tutor Tech and I like that too MIDGEF : I hope for a grant to work next year on Hypermedia MacTeach : And we'll likely be joined by the BLUE educators soon too... ;) AFL Wiggy : Are there BLUE educators???? MacTeach : LOL! There are lots of MIS people who THINK they're educators. :) BostnFrank: As in "I've Been Matriculated." AFL Wiggy : How about online courses? Would you all like to see courses for college credit or would you rather AFL Wiggy : see the old Apple University type courses? MIDGEF : Old BostnFrank: Both, please. MacTeach : Both! LavonneS : Both courses for credit and AU AFL Wiggy : What courses would you like to see? MIDGEF : Short tutorial type...maybe a few sessions BostnFrank: Hypermedia MIDGEF : Ditto MacTeach : Hypermedia MacTeach : GMTA BFrank! AFA GayleK: Or how about CEUs for the courses? Negotiator: yeah, hypermedia AFL Wiggy : Hmmm That sounds good! AFC Tooter: Yes yes! MIDGEF : DTP for kids AFL Wiggy : DTP for kids meaning how teachers can do it or a course for kids? MIDGEF : how to teach it BostnFrank: How to seed school systems with a few computerphiles. MacTeach : Alternative funding for the purchase of new systems. AFC Tooter: How about courses on integrating online with curriculum? BostnFrank: How to fund AO. AFC Tooter: !!! MacTeach : Oooooo, I like that one TOOT! AFA GayleK: Great idea, Tooter! :) (Are you teaching the course? ;) BostnFrank: Local user groups as ed resource. MIDGEF : The best thing about the AED forum is that it's at 8 pm when I'm awake AFL Wiggy : Great idea, Toot! MacTeach : Has Q thought about seeding the schools with AO software? MacTeach : (startup kits & some information?) AFL Wiggy : That's a great idea, Bard! I'll talk to them about it! AFC Tooter: Can ALine find a way to let us download a whole folder in one swell foop? MIDGEF : I've wondered how to do that! BostnFrank: Toot, you can almosst do that now with logs. AFC Tooter: Logs? AFL Wiggy : Toot... I am hoping that they will do that. The FLs have been pusing for that for a while now... AFL Wiggy : right now, you can do that with the GS software by logging the files. AFC Tooter: Good! BostnFrank: Open a log, then touch in each message, there're all in the one log file. AFC Tooter: Another reason to buy a GS! AFL Wiggy : But you have to keep pressing the next button. BostnFrank: true :( MacTeach : You can cut & paste with the Mac. :) AFL Wiggy : I would love to see the software atuomatically download all the contents of a folder. MIDGEF : How about putting the directions to do that in a folder in Let's Discuss AFL Wiggy : Midge.. That's a good idea. I'll try to remember to do that. MIDGEF : I'll remind you later AFL Wiggy : I am sure that the beginner's forum has that information... but it couldn't hurt to duplicate AFL Wiggy : their effort. BostnFrank: That doesn't work with IIe software? MacTeach : I'd like to see an easier way to identify other educators... using the member directory is a bit MacTeach : cumbersome. AFL Wiggy : Bard.... The Apple II membership directory is even more cumbersome. :( Negotiator: Suggested possible future forum: business and education cooperative efforts Soko : If AOL ever goes more "school"oriented I would like to see a series of on-line BostnFrank: In the AED literacy LD are there is a bio folder. BostnFrank: We -could- do that. Soko : school activities, such as Academic Bowls or contest Soko : things to give schools a "target" for coming on line AFL Wiggy : Soko... I agree... we need more of those. I am hoping to see Quantum begin to push those... AFL Wiggy : For a while, they were things that Qauntum allowed us to do but weren AFL Wiggy : 'weren't things that they pushed. GRMORRISON: Why not invite the Memphis ACOT group in, they are on AOL BostnFrank: Right, schedule daytime conf. for schools and other rich folk. Soko : YES!!! My boss got all het up about that kind of idea at a conference he went t MacTeach : Yes Soko... and some special conferences with guests especially suited for kids. Soko : Wiggy --- How about an Online thing like Lunch with Wozniak for kids Q&A? or Soko : a NASA astronaut BostnFrank: Heck, I'd love lunch with the WOZ! AFL Wiggy : Oooo... I like those, Soko... I'll see what I can do. Negotiator: Soko's right, get an astronaut on line during school hours with a lot of PR AFL Wiggy : I was thinking of making my AppleFest Seminar on Telecommunications a simulcast.... AFL Wiggy : That might be a great way to advertise! :) MacTeach : Yeah Wiggy... that worked well at the awards banquet (remember?) AFL Wiggy : That will be on a Friday afternoon.... AFC Tooter: I think a conference with ACOT would be fantastic! AFC Tooter: What about a conference with ACOT kids? GRMORRISON: WE have a group of 20 or so atrisk 5 & 6 graders here in memphis that are GRMORRISON: lesson tthat they do online GRMORRISON: online all the time due to an ACOT project. They have several BostnFrank: What is ACOT? GRMORRISON: Apple classroon of tommorrow AFL Wiggy : ACOT is the Apple Classroom of tomorrow. AFC Tooter: Apple Classroom of Tomorrow MacTeach : (look for users with a MEM prefix on screenname!) AFC Tooter: Not all have MEM GRMORRISON: Right! MacTeach : MEM = Memphis AFL Wiggy : Yes... The ACOT students do all sorts of good things here online... It's a great program. LavonneS : What are ACOt doing specifically online? GRMORRISON: They all have IIc's and a modem at home. They also have a Master's student GRMORRISON: who is a tutor that helps them with their homework GRMORRISON: We also have several projects they do online to improve their skills GRMORRISON: If you want to follow up, email me or MEMSTEVE=Steve Ross for info Soko : I think KidsNet will be a winner, because it can be done once or twicw a year Soko : AOL can offer monthly, or Bi-weekly things of a similar nature AFL Wiggy : Okay... How would you all like to see interschool communications expanded... AFL Wiggy : Toot and Bard have done a great job with ScrapBook... AFL Wiggy : How about Science, social studies or Math? AFL Wiggy : I am hoping that we can become a catalyst in BusyBill's search for more schools for his USSR AFL Wiggy : project. I am hoping Qauntum would love to pay for an account (and the surcharge from Alaska) for Joe AFL Wiggy : Davis's needs at his end. It would be great PR. Negotiator: BusyBill's efforts are great. I hope to see more info from him soon. AFL Wiggy : We now have 3 files (a log of last week AFL Wiggy : week's event and two from Bill himself). AFC Tooter: But how about getting teachers and/or students into the ed forum conf. Soko : Here are some ideas we are trying w/ our CT group .... the Electronic Soapbox Soko : a monthly opinion series, A shopping spree activity o spend $1000 at the store Soko : a stock exchange game, AFL Wiggy : I especially like the stock exchange idea! MacTeach : (I have three students who are playing Bulls & Bears here on AO... it's great!) Negotiator: Hope about telecommuncations with Spanish or French speaking students? AFC Tooter: We had a French ScrapBook exchange, almost. AFL Wiggy : Negotiator... with the GS that would be pretty easy... if both computers have their character AFL Wiggy : sets changed, the correct characters will flow across the screen... except for the ones that aren't AFL Wiggy : covered by the character set change in the control panel). Soko : How about a Where in the World type game to search the online encyclopedia Soko : for geographic clues, to solve some on-line mystery? AFL Wiggy : Okay... now that would be fun.... a Who can come up with the answer first type game. Soko : Or do it over time, all answeres have to be in by..... and celebrate all winners MacTeach : I think a scavenger hunt might be fun. Maybe something with Sabre? LavonneS : Doing it over time would be good, one session to set up game and rules LavonneS : and another session to collect results AFL Wiggy : The cheapest round the world fare! AFL Wiggy : Right... everybody should be a winner! :) Soko : Yes WIGGY!!!! I love it!!!! MacTeach : Yeah, Wigs... then they could go to the encyclopedia and get info! AFL Wiggy : Or perhaps choose partner schools to work together... rather than against the other schools... AFL Wiggy : A red team, a blue team.... And each school has members of both teams. BostnFrank: Shortest route to the 20 oldest cities in the world. MacTeach : I like the idea of teaming schools randomly... make some new friends that way! Soko : Have Quantum PR it as a fight against geographic illiteracy AFL Wiggy : Soko... That's a great way to bill it... Soko : How about exchange quizzes with schools in other states about the geography/ Soko : history of the other's states MacTeach : Bet you could get a co-sponsor for a geography game... NGeog. or Scholastic, maybe??? AFL Wiggy : I would hope that we could get known for our own activities! :) AFL Wiggy : I would like to see so much school activity on A.O. that the computer magazines couldn't help but AFL Wiggy : do stories about us! (We need to AO's name in the Mags somehow!) BostnFrank: OK, have a student day... all the AO forums run by student that day. BostnFrank: & give some of the more active schools their own forums. LavonneS : How about exchanging HyperStudio stacks about any subject MacTeach : Yes! Create "school/area" specific stacks to inform the world about you school.... it's like MacTeach : a HYPER SCRAPBOOK!!! AFL Wiggy : A history of our town stack... a tour of our school stack... an intro to our students stack... BostnFrank: With a common indexing tag system the student uploads would become a student BostnFrank: written encyclopedia. Soko : How about exchanges of AWKS data bases, AFL Wiggy : I like it. MacTeach : Great! Soko : So Wiggy.... there are a TON of reasons to get the school billing stuff clear AFL Wiggy : The nice thing about the billing right now (from Quantums viewpoint) is that it takes NO bookkeeping LavonneS : We could just agree on conference room meeting times and BE there for good talk Negotiator: You could negotiate to lower rates on a trial basis for daytime student confer. AFL Wiggy : Well, maybe it is time for all of us to write to customer service about it again. :) AFL Wiggy : time at all... other companies do the billing. That's why they were reluctant to go to any other AFL Wiggy : billing method. But, they may come around. Soko : Hey, so when the kid comes home from school, and tells Mom & Dad all the fun Soko : he/she is having on line at school.... want service wil Mom & Dad buy for home? Soko : I want to exchange student generated PrintShop graphics & other art like Soko : school logos etc.... BostnFrank: Hmmm... I'd like to see college and business recruiters online answering BostnFrank: questions for students. MacTeach : How about sponsoring an area to carry all of the Apple Computer Club entries online? BostnFrank: Well, can't the President help? MacTeach : You should see all the folks talking about AO on Prodigy...we're bound to see LOTS of converts soon! BostnFrank: Are you allowed to say AO on Prodigy? AFL Wiggy : Bard... You haven't seen anything yet! :) AFL FrankD: We already ARE seeing the converts, Teach. You should hear the lobby-loungers say how they came .. AFL FrankD: here because they heard about it on P and aren't going back. :) BostnFrank: Wait til the Armonk crowd gets therir software. :) MacTeach : Yes Frank(s). In the software help center I get mail almost every day about how much EASIER it is MacTeach : to download! :) LavonneS : One thing Prodigy has on us is one price and unlimited use. If AO could bill LavonneS : school users a one time price and then just let them on for that AFL FrankD: That will NEVER happen for all the obvious reasons. Soko : I still need to sell a principal on a fixed price, like it will cost $200 for Soko : the phone line, $200 for the modem, and XXXX.XX to be online for this much time Soko : and while there the kids will be able to do ........ MacTeach : So Wiggy... what does the AO "brain" really look like? LOL! AFL Wiggy : The AO brains are about 2/3 my height (no short jokes, please)... and say stratus on them...and AFL Wiggy : have a giant air conditioning unit. AFL FrankD: Beige cases about 4 feet high. :) AFL FrankD: And two feet across. AFL FrankD: A roomful of them. :) MacTeach : And Kent is hunched over the keyboard grinding out messages? BostnFrank: The school has to have someone with the AO disk who can just say no. Negotiator: Agreed, Frank. One person AFL FrankD: Mix that subjectivity with a fixed budget, and you got oil and water. :) AFL FrankD: This place is addictive. :) MacTeach : I wonder if they could configure a DISK to logoff after a certain amount of money was spent? AFL FrankD: That would be workable BostnFrank: And they can check current billing against budget as often as they like. Soko : Frank can you tell how long it will take to have a kid do a research project Soko : online.... how do you estimate that BostnFrank: budget + 10% minimum. AFL FrankD: How long would not directly relate to online time though. AFL FrankD: They'd have to be taught economy of online time, merged with offline preparation. AFL FrankD: ENFORCED Soko : Thats why my project is on Dow Jones, $150/month unlimited connect! Soko : We have one password that is shared between seven schools on a time schedule Soko : Yep, we all share one, it goes with me from school to school on my visits AFL FrankD: Which is good practice for ANYONE! :) BostnFrank: Teaching about computer and online budgets is not a bad prep for 21st century. AFL FrankD: Put them all on private BBS's first where you get disconnected after 20 minutes. AFL FrankD: Teaches them to operate FAST while online. Negotiator: Kids would get addicted to AO too, just like us. It must have budget controls. AFL FrankD: And to plan their online sessions before signing on. MacTeach : Offer kids handouts/planning sheets so that they can make better use of their time. We use a MacTeach : timer too! :)