10/6/91 7:57:48 PM Opening "Chat Log 10/6/91" for recording. AFL Gayle : OK. Let's get started, so we have all of the time to hear what HoboJungle is an and does. AFL Gayle : First, a short introduction. AFL Gayle : HoboJungle is Marc Erdrich and Ruth Boerger. Tonight, HoboJ is represented by AFL Gayle : just Marc. They are a company that helps enrich the writing process by helping AFL Gayle : students put together a professional quality magazine of the students' AFL Gayle : writings. Shepaug has "experienced" HoboJungle already. We, as always, will AFL Gayle : have one free hour to give away to the lucky user who says the secret word. You AFA Bard : Welcome JPsy! AFL Gayle : must say the word in context AND stay until the end of the chat to win. This MFJpsy : Hi, thanks. :) AFL Gayle : is our FIRST chat of Computer Learning Month! Welcome, Marc! :) HoboJungle : Hi everyone. AFL Gayle : OK. The floor is open for questions. As always, no protocol in here, but try AFL Gayle : not to step on your neighbor's toes. ;) MaryEz : Marc, I want to thank you for the materials you sent to me last spring. I am working on trying to MaryEz : convince the PTA that it would be a good project for them to fund. AFC Tooter : It's good, it's good!!! HoboJungle : Sounds great! AFL Gayle : Toot, would you like to share some of your personal experiences with us, HoboJungle : Thank you tooter. AFL Gayle : please? AFC Tooter : Well, Marc and Ruth ran their project with Shepaug two years ago. The ninth graders published AFC Tooter : a magazine of writings produced by the sixth graders. In just two solid days of work 9th AFC Tooter : graders chose, helped edit, layed out, and published a mag of about 10 to 15 pages. Very high quality AFC Tooter : This year they are AFC Tooter : coming back for a three day visit complete with one day of preparing illustrations for AFC Tooter : the magazine. MaryEz : How many kids were involved in the publishing? in the writing? HoboJungle : Usually, about 20-30 are directly involved. AFC Tooter : We had about 30 ninth graders working with the entiure 6th grade. AFC Tooter : This year... HoboJungle : Indirectly, we will involve an entire grade(s). AFC Tooter : we will be working with 60 ninth graders. We will have a video crew recording the event for possible AFC Tooter : public access TV. MaryEz : Is there a way it can be worked out with teams? Our middle school structure is teams of 90-110 and MaryEz : they basically all work on the same projects. HoboJungle : We will be working with a team in Hamden, CT next spring. AFC Tooter : Hi Lavonne!!! AFC Tooter : and Marty. HoboJungle : That will be a project that will extend to about 10 days. LavonneS : Hi everybody, I want to introduce you to my friend Joyce MaryEz : Would you permit an observer? HoboJungle : We are trying to get funding from the school from the State Commission on the Arts. HoboJungle : Everyone is welcome. We encourage parents, etc. AFL Bobloo : ::waving to Joyce:: AFL Gayle : Welcome, Joyce! :) MaryEz : What would be the cost for the 10 day project? AFA Bard : Welcome Joyce! LavonneS : Sorry to interrupt your conversation. Panda4 : What software package(s) do you use for this? HoboJungle : Probably about $3,500; but the school is only putting up $900. AFL Gayle : (NO problem, Lavonne. :) AFA Bard : That's REALLY reasonable, Marc- especially when I've such great things about your program. We've AFA Bard : paid almost twice that much for 1/2 the time for consultants that were no where near as effective! AFC Tooter : Perhaps they'll fly you to Atlanta, Marc. HoboJungle : I'm glad to hear that. We are trying to make the programs a shared venture between the school and the HoboJungle : community, because of the tough financial times. MaryEz : Does the cost include issues of the magazine for everyone? HoboJungle : We provide 200 copies in the price. MaryEz : Great!! AFL Gayle : Let's get Andy's question answered before it gets lost. What software AFL Gayle : package (s) do you use, Marc? HoboJungle : Ventura and PageMaker for page layout HoboJungle : Corel, Paintbrush for graphics HoboJungle : Q&A for word processing AFC Tooter : You might also want to know that Marc and Ruth bring in their own hardware for the project, too. HoboJungle : ReadRite for text scanning. AFL Gayle : So what hardware (including printers) do you use? AFC Tooter : Careful Marc, you're in hostile territory, now. HoboJungle : We use a Zenith 386 with a 22" grey scale monitor and a LaserMaster printer HoboJungle : To us the computer is secondary. Helping kids improve their writing skills comes first. AFL Gayle : So, Marc, can you tell us about a typical project with a school? What you would AFA Bard : Could be done with ANY WP or DTP program, though. :) AFL Gayle : do? What the teachers would need to do in advance? What the cost would be? HoboJungle : Bard: yes. AFA Bard : [[ Hiya Ragen! ]] HoboJungle : When practical we meet with a faculty member assigned to the project first. AFC Tooter : Ragen :))) HoboJungle : Next, we see if want to create a general literary magazine, or tie it in to the curriculum RagenT : Hi all, sorry to drop in so late:) HoboJungle : Then, we see what add-ons: Do we want to include an artist in the program, a musician, etc. AFC Tooter : Welcome again, Squash. This is an Ed chat on the HoboJungle publishing project. HoboJungle : Then we decide on fees (how to get the money) and dates. HoboJungle : Teachers start collecting manuscripts way in advance HoboJungle : When we arrive we're ready to start working with an editorial and production committee. Panda4 : Hi Tim! AFL Gayle : Can you give us an example of how you would tie it into the curriculum, please? HoboJungle : It's very intensive. The kids are exhuasted after two days. AFL Gayle : Welcome, Tim! :)) AFP TimB : HI Gayle. HoboJungle : Let's say Columbus is a major theme for the year. We can have teachers solicit manuscripts... HoboJungle : across the curriculum to be included in the magazine. MaryEz : We have a two campus school, 5/6 in one and 7/8 in the other. Would it be a problem to have the 8th MaryEz : publish the writing of the 5th? HoboJungle : No, that's what we like to do. It's great for the kids to work with their peers. AFC Tooter : Marc and Ruth will also encourage all sorts of material including songs, pictures, poems, anything. GS Jim : I hate falling off line!!! It was awful! HoboJungle : Toot's right. We see writing as any process that puts pen to paper. AFC Tooter : Welcome back Wiggy. Hope you didn't bounce hard. AFL Gayle : Where are these magazines distributed after you publish them? (Anyone else, HoboJungle : I might add that the best work is included in Hobo Jungle, our own literary magazine AFL Gayle : feel free to jump in with your questions at any time. We still have a free hour AFL Gayle : available to the lucky secret word user. :) AFL Bobloo : Hey... I didn't really mean to push you that hard, Wigs...:) LavonneS : Wiggy!! AFA Bard : Marc, is there a way we can get a sample of HoboJungle? HoboJungle : It's up to the school to decide how they want to use the magazine. AFC Tooter : Marc, can teachers here order copies of your reguolar mag for their schools? HoboJungle : Bard: Yes. Just send me your address via e-mnail. HoboJungle : Tooter: They sure can. Juse send me an address. AFL Gayle : How often is the regular magazine published, Marc? Can schools subscribe to it? HoboJungle : Theoretically, it's published quarterly. Our funds have been a little low lately. HoboJungle : Also, it's a free magazine in New York City and Connecticut. $12 for a subscription elsewhere. HoboJungle : Some schools have used the magazine in English classes before our arrival. LavonneS : Sorry to be rude but gotta go. See you next week AFC Tooter : It's a really beautiful magazine. Super writing and graphics. AFL Gayle : Thanks for coming, Lavonne! :) AFA Bard : Bye, Lavonne. Thanks for participating! GS Jim : see you, Lavonne. RagenT : Do you have a lot of subscribers? HoboJungle : I should probably mention the entire magazine is composed on computer. HoboJungle : Ragen: No, because we discourage subscriptions. We're primarily a free magazine... AFL Gayle : Welcome, Skip! :) HoboJungle : and not really in a position to fulfill large numbers of subscriptions.... BCS Skip : Hi Gayle! HoboJungle : Besides, literary magazines don't generally have a large subscription base. AFA Bard : Welcome Skip! We're talking with Marc Erdrich about his HoboJungle DTP project. :) AFL Gayle : About how many schools do you work with during a school year, Marc? BCS Skip : Thanks, Bard :) HoboJungle : This year we have contracted with about 10 schools so far. Panda4 : How much do stress the "real world" process in making the publication? MaryEz : How do most of them pay for the project? AFA Bard : (great question, Andy!) AFL Gayle : (Keep those questions coming. We still don't have a winner for our free hour.:) Panda4 : :) HoboJungle : Ok, Panda 1st: We're trying to bring the "real" world of publishing to the classroom. HoboJungle : We try to keep the classroom teacher from making too many of the decisions.... HoboJungle : Like, "Oh, I hope we're going to include this piece." HoboJungle : We let the kids make the decisions, with a little prodding when necessary. Panda4 : I use DTP for everything not just for school things. HoboJungle : Now, Mary: We usually get partial funding from the school, and raise the rest from local.. RagenT : So, who is the "editor", is the production staff mostly students? HoboJungle : community resources. AFL Gayle : Who makes the decisions for your "regular" journal? Is there any student input HoboJungle : Ragen: We work on a committee basis.... AFL Gayle : to the production of it? AFC Tooter : What is so incredible is that after two days, the kids see a product that looks absolutely professiona AFC Tooter : l. Panda4 : That answered my question. It sounds like a great program! MaryEz : Who makes the local contacts? AFA Bard : Welcome KidZilla- we're chatting with Marc (HoboJungle) about an exciting desktop publishing project! HoboJungle : One group is assignted to the editorial committee; the other to production. Panda4 : I wish I had a school I could talk into participating! HoboJungle : Gayle: There is a "Young Hobos" section in the regular journal; we do the editing and decision making AFC Tooter : You'll accept any manuscripts for consideration in the Young Hobos, won't you, Marc?> HoboJungle : Tooter: Absolutely. And we will respond (in time) with a personal letter... HoboJungle : for any material we reject. AFC Tooter : Do you still pay for material accepted or has economics changed all that? HoboJungle : Tooter: All published authors (to the regular journal, not the school editions) receive $10. AFC Tooter : But you accept student work in the regular edition. Students accepted for the reg edition will get the $10. HoboJungle : Tooter: Right. MaryEz : Could you explain more about getting the locals to help with funding. HoboJungle : Mary: We've gotten funding from the Rotary Club to local businesses... to foundations, etc. HoboJungle : We'll do the legwork; but we want the school to help. AFA Bard : Any kind of follow up after the project is complete, Marc? (Besides the newsletter)? Panda4 : You mean by writing businesses for the funds? Panda4 : Hi John! HoboJungle : Bard: We have a followup questionnaire for the kids. AFC JohnC : Hi all! HoboJungle : Panda: We'll actually contact them directly. AFA Bard : Welcome John! We're chatting with Marc (HoboJungle) about his desktop publishing project. Panda4 : What do you have the schools do? AFA Bard : How have the results looked on those that you've tabulated? (questionairres) HoboJungle : Panda: Help us by giving us the names of local businesses, etc. Panda4 : OIC Thanks. HoboJungle : Bard: The kids love it; we've directed a few kids toward publishing... HoboJungle : but mainly we've learned how to improve the program.... AFC Tooter : Parents love it, too. HoboJungle : For example, some of the kids have been bothered by the demonstrations we conduct... HoboJungle : bringing in classes while they're busy working.... HoboJungle : So now we make sure we do the demonstrations out of the way. AFL Gayle : So, Marc, could you give us a brief "look" at a visit to a school. What AFL Gayle : happens first? Are the writings already written on a word processor and then AFL Gayle : converted or?? HoboJungle : Gayle: Ok, I'll try to give you a rundown.... HoboJungle : Day 1: We arrive around 7:30 and setup.... HoboJungle : 8:00-8:45: Talk with the kids about the process of computerized publishing, how we're going to work, HoboJungle : etc. HoboJungle : Essentially, we do the demo we do with the other kids so they understand what's happening. HoboJungle : 8:00-Noon: Divide into groups, distribute manuscripts that have been collected.... HoboJungle : usually about 100 or so. HoboJungle : Every manuscript is read by at least three students, often aloud, discussed..... HoboJungle : By the end of the morning, we have three piles... HoboJungle : Accepted, rejected and maybes... HoboJungle : After lunch, the production committee starts working with the accepteds.... HoboJungle : Scanning the typed manuscripts into the computer, retyping if necessary.... HoboJungle : we always get a few handwritten ones..... HoboJungle : Editorial committee starts calling in students to discuss the maybes.... HoboJungle : They might need rewriting, cleaning up, etc. HoboJungle : Day 2: Heavy on production. HoboJungle : We start talking about type, layout and design, computer graphics, etc. HoboJungle : By late morning we're ready to make a dummy, start laying out the pages. HoboJungle : Afternoon is hectic, everyone working on looking at composed pages on the computer.... HoboJungle : kids doing last minute graphics, etc. HoboJungle : By homeroom time we're usually frantically trying to run off page proofs... HoboJungle : A few days later we bring in the magazines hot from the printer. HoboJungle : Whew! any questions. MaryEz : How does a project develop from the first contact with you stating we are interested until you arrive RagenT : The kids deadline for having manuscripts ready is when you come to demo? AFA Bard : Welcome Charles. Marc (HoboJungle) is just filling us in on his desktop publishing project! MaryEz : with the equipment? HoboJungle : Ragen: Yes HoboJungle : Mary: We work with (usually a single teacher) assigned as project coordinator. AFA Bard : Marc, is there any avenue to further publish student's work after HoboJungle - if it's really great? HoboJungle : Lots of contact with school as time goes on. RagenT : How many kids? Whole classes? HoboJungle : Bard: We bring in samples of literary magazines, some for kids, and we encourage them to submit. RagenT : What do you do for graphics.. do kids submit drawings, computer graphics to RagenT : import? HoboJungle : Ragen: It's different in every school. There are no two programs alike. HoboJungle : Ragen: Some graphics have been computer generated; others are done in pen or pencil HoboJungle : Often, we work on the computer to correct or improve artwork. RagenT : How many computers does it take you to accomplish this? HoboJungle : Ragen: Just one. RagenT : Wow! Sounds like a technological marathon! Panda4 : Do you cut and paste the layout or do it all in DTP? MaryEz : Marc, I just can't envision the publication with a team. Writing, yes, publishing, no! HoboJungle : Ragen: You just got it! It's exhausting, but exhilarating to see what they accomplish. RagenT : Who gets to hold the mouse? One person or many get a turn? HoboJungle : Mary: It's actually the toughest part. We'd love to have a bunch of computers... HoboJungle : networked for the program, but we're not really a computer workshop... HoboJungle : we're a writing and publishing workshop. The kids come away with a really good idea... HoboJungle : of what can be done on the computer, even though we have to do a lot of it.... HoboJungle : The toughest part is that one kid whose a computer freak and just can stay away from the machine... HoboJungle : to the expense of everyone else. It's a little like this chat. AFA Bard : John! Welcome to AED! We're chatting with HoboJungle about a great Desktop Publishing AFA Bard : project! The full text of the log will posted in the AED New Files library by tomorrow evening. :) MaryEz : If the publishing school had a lab of MacLCs, could you use them? AFA Bard : (In case you want to see what you've missed! :) AFC Tooter : The project is really primarily about writing and teaching kids howe to select and judge and work with AFC Tooter : with other writers. JWhite : Thanks HoboJungle : Mary: The technology is now there to transfer files back and forth between Mac and PC... HoboJungle : and our assumption is that many of the manuscripts have been input on word processors. MaryEz : I was just thinking of it from the team aspect. AFA Bard : Marc.. have you ever presented at any of the NCTE conferences? HoboJungle : Mary: I don't think it would be a problem to involve a school's computer dept into the program. HoboJungle : Bard: No, not yet. We're new to the world of promoting ourselves in the education marketplace. HoboJungle : We can use any help or suggestions you might have. AFA Bard : A great avenue! NCTE = National Council of Teachers of English. They have both regional and AFA Bard : national conferences. A GREAT avenue for your project! AFA Bard : Welcome Roy! HoboJungle : Bard: Tooter has mentioned it, and we are following up. Thanks HoboJungle : Our biggest task is getting the right people no what we're doing. AFL Gayle : OK. Any last minute questions for Marc before we announce our winner? HoboJungle : Most of the programs out there are performance oriented; we're different enough so we have a hard sell AFL Gayle : First a short commercial... This is Computer Learning Month. We have 3 brand AFL Gayle : new companies in our Direct Connect. Check them out. Also, if you haven't AFL Gayle : already, check out the Delta Drawing Today in that Direct Connect. Next week, MaryEz : We have a local publisher in Guilford, maybe we could get them interested. AFA Bard : Marc's done a WONDERFUL job... Where can folks get more information, Marc? AFC Tooter : ScrapBook Hello Day for exchange 2 in October 15th. AFL Gayle : our topic will be Using America Online to Link Your Classes with Other Schools, HoboJungle : Mary: Thanks, please get in touch. AFL Gayle : starring our own AFC Tooter as guest. HoboJungle : Bard: Write to Hobo Jungle Educational Programs, Inc., Roxbury, CT 06783.... HoboJungle : We'll send a kit. AFL Gayle : A BIG thank YOU to Marc for his informative chat! :) AFL Gayle : Now for our winner.... AFC Tooter : tum ta ta tum... AFA Bard : Yea, Marc!!!!!!!!! HoboJungle : All Right. AFL Gayle : RagenT wins one free nonprime time hour for using the word, editor. AFL Gayle : *Applause* AFA Bard : LOL! GREAT... RAGEN!!!!!! AFL Gayle : Congratulations, Ragen! :) GS Jim : Yay! AFA Bard : Here comes Tooter's FOOD FIGHT! AFC Tooter : drib drib drib drib drib drab AFC Tooter : kabonga AFC Tooter : kerrrspludddd AFC Tooter : zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzip AFC Tooter : zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzippppppppp AFC Tooter : old toads HoboJungle : disgusting AFC Tooter : KaBooooomb AFC Tooter : SPLAT RagenT : Thank you, will use SCRAPPING Tooter. Panda4 : Congrats Ragen! AFC Tooter : * ROTFL (rolling on the floor l* 10/6/91 9:05:25 PM Closing Log file.