11/12/90 8:09:43 PM Opening "log1111" for recording. Apple // Education Forum Chat Log c. Quantum Computer Svcs. Inc. AFC Tooter AFA Bard AFL Gayle Deborahlyn Negotiator MFJpsy AFL Bobloo RagenT AFL DannyH AFL Gayle : And we'll go ahead and get started. No macros today, so I'll just give you a little introduction to the topic. FrEdMail is a bulletin board system linked throughout the United States and other countries. Its purpose is support for educational projects. It was begun in CA but is now in 15 states and 4 foreigncountries. AFA Bard : (Welcome Ragen, Danny! We're just getting started!) AFL Gayle : FrEdMail is also linked to Bitnet and CompuServe and AppleLink- America Online :( through a "gateway" in Canada. FrEdMail is free, other than the cost of the phone call. It runs on Apple // software, but, of course, any computer can call it. The software is sold by CUE, a computer educators' user group in CA. With that introduction, I'll open the floor for questions. (Welcome, Danny and Ragen. :) In our Articles and Transcripts Library, you can find the FrEdMail Map, a DB, AFL DannyH: how much is the software? AFL Gayle : and a text file about projects done on the network. $50.00, Danny, plus $50 a year membership. AFL Gayle : The membership fee was new last year to support expansion of the network. AFL DannyH: is Fredmail a stand alone application? AFL Gayle : Uh, I'm not sure what you're asking, Danny? RagenT : Hi Gayle :) AFL DannyH: Fredmail is on a bootable disk? or is run under another application? AFL Gayle : Oh, yes, Danny, although it is normally run on a hard drive. Negotiator: Why not have access through AOL if other services have it? AFL DannyH: does one need a hard drive to use Fredmail? AFL Gayle : Built into the Sysop Utilities is a text editor (FrEdWriter) and file delete utilities. AFL Gayle : Danny, if you don't have a hard drive, you would have to delete messages AFL DannyH: AO has its own mail system:) AFA Bard : Currently AO is investigating gateways to a variety of networks. (let's wait and see!) AFL Gayle : religiously. It CAN be done on 2 3.5s but the system chokes up fairly quickly if there is a lot of mail. Bob, it's a matter of AO is not available via Bitnet addresses. FrEdMail goes AFL DannyH: the polling is done automatically or does one have to initiate the call? MFJpsy : Is this a 24 hour a day system? AFL Gayle : through UUCP and BitNet to get to the other networks. Most of the nodes are set up 24 hours a day. That's really up to the SYSOP but very few are not accessible 24 hours a day. Danny, you have a utility that you set up to call your next node. It is done automatically within a dialing time you set up. Usually, about 1 am to 4 am If there is mail to go to that node, calling can be done several times each morning. You can also force dial at any time. MF, there are three bulletin board sections that are carried by all FrEdMail AFL DannyH: how is the mail addressed, does one have to know the route or will the ..... softwware take over and use the shortest route? AFL Gayle : nodes. These are Ideas, which is an area for Teachers to share project ideas MFJpsy : Thanks. AFL Gayle : Kidwire, which is an area for kids to share their writings, and News. Other boards are carried by the boards based upon what the Sysop wants. There are boards for Spanish speaking projects; one that links with BitNet; one for social studies, science, etc. Not all are carried by all boards. Hang on, Danny. MF, you could call any of the boards, but it would make sense to call the one closest to you. Danny, re addressing... The map shows the addressing route and how to address mail. You have to know how to address it correctly or the mailer will reject it. AFL DannyH: if I have access to Bitnet through a BBS, I could get the mail feeds from AFL Gayle : Did you have another question, Danny? Welcome, English T and Marty. :) AFL DannyH: Fredmail without running Fredmail software? AFA Bard : Welcome English! We're discussing the FrEdMail system. :) AFL Gayle : Danny, yes, with your Sysop's permission. Usually the feeds are set up as another bulletin board. AFL DannyH: do you have an address on getting the FredMail software? and FredMail runs under Prodos/ AFL Gayle : FrEdMail Foundation, P.O. Box 243, Bonita, CA 920002-2043 FrEdMail runs under ProDOS 8 software. The list of nodes and how they are linked together are in a file in the AFL DannyH: how is payment made to CUE, will they accept credit cards? AFL Gayle : Articles and Transcripts Library. It's called FrEdMail Map or something like that. AFA Bard : Gayle.. you mentioned 15 states.. are these mostly in the West? AFL Gayle : Check only, Danny. AFL Marty : If the "Fr" stands for "Free", how come you have to pay for it? AFL Gayle : The states are AR, CA, CT, IA, IL, KY, MI, MO, NB, NC, NJ, NY, OK, PA, WY AFL DannyH: the payment is for the software, the service is free AFL Gayle : There are 59 nodes in CA. NC is next with 24 nodes. AFA Bard : So Gayle.. you mean that anyone from a state not listed will incur a long-distance charge to dial into an active node? RagenT : We have MassCue...maybe Massachusetts is one of the 15? AFL Gayle : Well, maybe, Bard. If you have PC Pursuit, you can reach 36 of the nodes. No, Ragen. MA is not currently in the FrEdMail network. RagenT : I guess MA isn't... AFL Gayle : There are also nodes in Argentina, Ireland, Australia, and Canada. Additional AFL DannyH: Gayle, do you know what language FredMail is written? MFJpsy : I thought Gayle said $50 for software AND $50 for annual membership! ?? AFL Gayle : countries are available through the Bitnet connections. AppleSoft BASIC AFL DannyH: yea, Muriel, but don't say that in front of Marty:) AFL Gayle : MF, the membership is for those who are running the BBS, not the users of the BBS. It's to support further improvements to the software. OnlineHost: Tune in to the Music Tutoring Session now beginning in LEARNING & REFERENCE. Use keyword HOMEWORK. (8:33:42 PM) AFA Bard : Is there a newsletter or some sort of regular written communication included with the FrEdMail package? MFJpsy : :), Danny! AFL Gayle : A manual comes with the software, Bard. There is also an occasional (like twice a year at most, paper newsletter mailed out to the Sysops.) Most of the communication is done online. There is a regular newsfeed that just the Sysops receive. AFA Bard : So you are a sysop Gayle? AFL Gayle : CO-Sysop, Bard, yes. The actual computer is at the BBS, but I help out remotely. AFL DannyH: if a school were to setup FredMail, what kind of modems are suported? AFL Gayle : Err, computer is at the BOE, I mean. :) AFL DannyH: Benovolent Order of Elks? AFA Bard : "Bored of Education" !!! AFL Gayle : Most Hayes compatible modems, Danny. Some use Apple; Avatex, DataLink, for example. LOL, Danny! No, Board of Education. :) The Cermetek 1200 internal is also used. AFA Bard : Is there someone at the BOE then who is responsible for sys. maintenance, etc.? AFL DannyH: does the software automatically install itself or is this a difficulty to AFC Tooter: Ours is hardly benevolent, Danny. AFL DannyH: vovercome? AFL Gayle : Yes, Bard. One of the other Sysops works at the BOE. MFJpsy : Sorry to run off. Thanks for the info! :) AFA Bard : Nite Jpsy!! AFC Tooter: Hi, "T" AFA Bard : Does your BOE have a dedicated dial-in line? AFL Gayle : There are a variety of modem drivers available with the software, Danny. Yes, Bard. (That was the hardest part to get. ;) AFA Bard : On a 1-10 scale (1=AO, 10=C$) how friendly is the software (FREDMAIL and BBS)? AFL Gayle : Also, Sysops who are having trouble communicate with other Sysops via the Sysops private message area, Danny. AFL DannyH: FredMail is usually run as a part of a BBS? AFL Gayle : As in trouble getting a modem to work. Hmmm, interesting question, Bard. It's a menu driven system, so it's somewhat AFL Gayle : easy. Help is available almost everywhere with a ? I would say maybe 7. It's about as friendly as say GBBS, but friendlier than ProLine. (I would put GEnie up there at 10 instead of CI$) AFL Bobloo: Or maybe Iris? :) AFL Gayle : If you are using FrEdMail in your school system, there is a tutorial available AFA Bard : LOL! OK..so you call a local BBS established as a FrEdMail node to access the system... if no local AFL Gayle : that simulates using the software. AFA Bard : node is available, you've got to access through routing mail in C$erve, or call into another city with an active FrEdmail BBS? Am I on target? ;) AFL Gayle : Huh, Bard? If "you call a local BBS," you're in the FrEdMail system. The only cost to you to access the whole system (including CIS) is the local AFL DannyH: what if the local BBS is running EBBS and accessing FredMail through bitnet? AFL Gayle : call. FrEdMail routes the mail the rest of the way (just like the USPS, providing you address it correctly. ;) There aren't any running EBBS software accessible on FrEdMail yet, Danny. AFL DannyH: can I buy the software without paying the annual memebership fee? AFL Gayle : There are a couple modified GBBS boards in the system, but their mailing AFA Bard : Aha.. Danny asks the BEST questions! :) AFL Gayle : works the same as FrEdMail. AFL DannyH: I will ask Joey Schober to see if he can access FredMail via bitnet AFL Gayle : Danny, as far as I know, no. You have to pay the $50 annual fee to stay active. AFL DannyH: is there a phone number to CUE? AFL DannyH: what if I do not want to be active, just want to see the software? AFL Gayle : FrEdMail Foundation number is 619-475-4852. I don't know, Danny. They would probably let you just buy the software, but I don't know. I'll find out for you and get back with you. :) AFL Bobloo: I got the CUE catalog of software when I was at the California Cue conf. AFL DannyH: on the BBS at the BOE, that is strictly FredMail? AFL Bobloo: I was a bit upset with their charging for some things like SunRaycer AFL DannyH: no other BBS software running? AFL Gayle : Right, Danny. FrEdMail IS the BBS software. AFL Bobloo: What is the official status of the FrEd stuff, Gayle I thought FrEd stood for Free Education They have some wierd policies, right? AFL Gayle : That's sort of nebulous, Bob. (Talk about who asks the hard questions ;) AFL DannyH: does FredMail then have newsfeeds as well as an email system? AFL Bobloo: LOL AFL Gayle : I am free to give you FrEdWriter and FrEdBase in person on a disk as an educator to an educator. However, they won't let us put it here in the libraries or even online on FrEdMail. AFL Bobloo: Thats what I mean by wierd. AFL Gayle : The $10 they charge in the catalog they claim is a handling fee and supports future developments. AFL DannyH: as a sysop of FredMail, am I obligated to poll another site? then you can NOT even mail the disk, it has to be in person? AFL Gayle : Yes, Danny. All FrEdMails have the $Ideas, $Kidwire, $Sysops, and $News feed. Um, well, Danny, I suppose you could mail it. That's in person, so to speak. AFL DannyH: does the software support any local messaging that is not part of the aforementioned areas? AFL Gayle : Other feeds are carried that the Sysop wants to carry. Yes, Danny. You can send private mail to anyone on the network, as long as AFA Bard : (Danny you are reading my mind! Keep asking these TERRIFIC questions!) AFL DannyH: but the sysop could setup message boards of his own AFL Gayle : you have their "address." Also you can send private mail to users on your local board. No, you do not have to poll another site. In fact, in NC, Bladen (my node) does a lot of the polling of the other boards in the state, so the Sysop pays only the monthly charge for the telephone line. Bladen gets money for the phone calls from the State Dept. of Public Instruction. AFL Bobloo: You may have said this while I was afk...but how far away generally is the node I would poll? AFL DannyH: how about a message board such as Mrs. Pollen's 5th Grade for example that is : not part of the FredMail system? AFL Bobloo: ::sneezing:: Sigh...all that Pollen AFL Gayle : Danny, you can set up private systems with in the message boards and within AFL DannyH: NW Russia for you Bob AFL Gayle : the bulletin board system. AFL Bobloo: LOL, Danny That sounds Reasonable...I like Russians, too AFL Gayle : For example, some of my students just participated in a $Noon project. They AFL DannyH: so FredMail is a complete BBS with netmail? AFL Gayle : measured the shadow of a stick at noon, and they will share those results with other students. That was set up as a conference area within the email system. Right, Danny! :) AFA Bard : Aha! Kind of like a "cheap" NGeog. KidsNet, then.. with online projects as well as mail exchange? AFL Gayle : And, yes, the Sysop can set up any local private or network private boards. AFL DannyH: gee, I wish you had said that earlier:) AFL Gayle : Bard, the difference from National Geographic is you can actually get on the Teacher jn: Gayle you're a SYSOP ?? AFL Bobloo: Can disk files be sent from node to node? AFL DannyH: Gayle is a Super Sysop AFL Gayle : BBS and post a message. AFA Bard : Gayle is a co-sysop. ...and an all-around amazing person. :) AFL Gayle : With National Geographic, the software does it all for you. AFL DannyH: does Fredmail System Software support a library? Teacher jn: That goes w/o sayin'! ;)))) AFL Gayle : Yes, Bob, you can attach files to messages. We received the AppleWorks spreadsheet to tell when "noon" was at our longitude and latitude via the file attached to email. AFA Bard : How many schools (estimate?) are online with FrEdMail? AFL Gayle : We have sent Newsroom files, ComputerEyes scanned files, HyperStudio, etc. Hard to tell, Bard. For example, in our county, we have 13 schools all with modems that access our BBS. There are 115 nodes, but I have no way of knowing how many access each of those. AFA Bard : Do they support 1200,2400 and 9600 baud transmission? AFL Gayle : 1 is 300 baud; 60 1200 baud, 42 2400 baud, 1 9600 baud (Canada); 11 not specified. AFA Bard : Excellent! I wonder if there are grants available to fund the installation of a FrEdMail system? : Anyone got any ideas? AFL Gayle : All of that information is on the map, too. :) Teacher jn: Way to go w/ HS Stacks! AFL Gayle : I'm sure there must be, Bard. It's easy to push because you can show how it's directly related to instruction. We got it in the state because telecomm is in Teacher jn: How did Gayle go about getting her system setup, funded etc. etc.???? AFL DannyH: sure there grants available, just find them! then apply and wait to be turned down:) AFL Gayle : our Basic Education Program. AFL DannyH: Gayle paid for it out of her pocket AFL Gayle : Joel, ours was a pilot project, mostly paid for by our State Dept. of Public Teacher jn: Que pasa BEP ?? AFL Gayle : Instruction. Nope, Danny. Gayle is a poor schoolteacher. ;) Teacher jn: Roger! Let's her it for Gayle's State ED! AFL Gayle : Basic Education Program is goals and objectives for all subjects, all grades, mandated by the state, Joel. AFL DannyH: there is no such thing as a poor school teacher, you are all spritually rich AFL Bobloo: Interesting way of looking at it, Danny...:) AFL Gayle : Ah, yes, Danny, but spirits don't buy software and hardware. :) AFA Bard : Just in case you missed it... FrEdMail Foundation, P.O. Box 243, Bonita, CA 920002-2043. :) Teacher jn: DannyH, must have heard a calling! AFL Bobloo: Sometimes with my paycheck, I find I could use a few spirits... hehe] AFL DannyH: most schools have a computer, only a hard drive and modem would be req'd to set up FredMail AFL Gayle : Bet yet, download the file from the library, and you'll have the address and AFA Bard : FrEdMail Foundation number is 619-475-4852 AFL Gayle : phone number. :) AFL DannyH: Gayle does the software itself support online libraries? AFL Gayle : AND the monthly phone line charge. THAT's the hard thing to get funded, Danny. Teacher jn: My school has a MODEM thanks to AFL of Productivity a la OAL! AFL DannyH: I was under the impression that most schools already had phone lines AFL Gayle : Danny, unfortunately, no. :( It used to, but they deleted that from the latest version of the software. AFL DannyH: no need for a dedicated line even if you have multiple lines that jump AFL Gayle : Again, a Sysop could set up a bulletin board that didn't scroll off with AFL DannyH: do you have an older version of the software? AFL Gayle : attached files. Sort of a stilted way to do it. No, Danny. That got deleted when the new one was installed. AFL DannyH: what no archive?!!! Teacher jn: I'm confused you need a dedicated line or you don't need one?? AFL Bobloo: Do you do updates yourself, Gayle, or is that done when you poll? AFL Gayle : I don't handle the software updates. Our computer person does those. AFL DannyH: you do not need a dedicated line, but that would be nice AFL Bobloo: Dedicated lines are real nice, Joel...but you don't ever need one AFL Gayle : They are sent attached to the Sysop message, and you do your own updating, Bard. AFL Bobloo: How much time does it take to Sysop this system, Gayle? Are we talking hours, or minutes a week? AFL DannyH: a good co-sysop would make sure there was an archive somewhere:) AFL Gayle : Actually, Danny, we archive the previous version. So we DO have version 12.6 stashed away on the hard drive, but version 10 was ages ago, so we don't have it still. AFL DannyH: version 12.6 wow this stuff has seen some changes! AFL Bobloo: Scares me hen there are that many versions of something... AFL Gayle : Normally, maybe half an hour or so a day, Bob, to read your mail and verify new users. Longer when there are updates to install. AFL DannyH: being a sysop can be any amount of time that you have free and a lot of time that you do not have free AFL Gayle : You've got it exactly, Danny! :) AFA Bard : Gotta run folks... GREAT chat, Gayle! I learned a bunch! :) I'll upload edited log tomorrow nite! :) AFL Gayle : Actually, Herb, our Sysop, spends most of his time helping users in the county AFL DannyH: bye Bard 11/12/90 9:07:45 PM Closing file.