2/3/91 -- 8:00:40 PM -- Opening "CHAT020391" for recording. AFL Gayle : Welcome to the Apple // Education Forum! : Please check your HotShot for the schedule : of conferences for this rest of this week. : : This month in AED we are featuring our : Direct Connect members. Our guest tonight : is Roger Wagner. Our discussion will be : about HyperStudio, The Graphic Exchange, : and hypermedia. I have two free hours to : give away tonight to the two lucky people : who are the first to say the secret words : that Bard and I will be looking for. We : don't use protocol here. : : We ask that you try to not interrupt : someone else, but please feel free to ask : your questions at any time. Welcome, Rog! : Oops, that should be Roger! Overactive macro. ;) RWagnerInc: Thanks! Great to be here! ga AFL Gayle : OK. Everyone, ask away. You've got the HyperStudio expert here. :) AFA Bard : Hiya Gerry! Topher 1 : Social first...how is Florida? GerryR5 : HI everyone!!! :) RWagnerInc: ...AFC Tooter is not currently signed on. BCS Frank : Just in case no one else has mentioned them, Congratulations on your 4 awards! RWagnerInc: Pretty neat! I came in early this morning, and am in Tampa... Topher 1 : Hi Gerry! BCS Frank : RWagnerInc: (downtown). Things are really quiet today, but tomorrow starts GerryR5 : HI Topher! :) RWagnerInc: an educational conference. The phone in my room didn't have a modular connector, so I had to make an emergency trip to Radio Shack (they're everywhere!) for some alligator clips to get online - but obviously all's working now! ga GerryR5 : HI Roger! :) I have had that problem too! :) LOL!! BCS Frank : Hmmm, later you can use them for tie clips. :) RagenT : Roger, I am very interested in Hyperstudio and hypermedia in general. HS is just for the GS? Topher 1 : The Hyatt at Apfst had the same problems....:( RWagnerInc: Yes, HyperStudio is only for the Apple IIGS. The biggest reason AFL Gayle : The South seems to be a little bit slow updating their hotel phones, Roger. I've had that problem before. LavonneS : Ragen, you will just have to get a GS! RWagnerInc: for this is that the GS really is the best hypermedia machine. ... We could do the software on other machines, but it wouldn't offer everything the GS does. (And thanks about the awards, we were all very thrilled about it, although I don't know if it's a good idea to encourage delinquents!) ga GerryR5 : If only we could get that message out to the rest of the world! Roger, you are doing a GREAT job! :) RWagnerInc: Getting it out to the rest of the world is just the part that's most important. It's going to take more than just telling people you like your GS (and this leads to the problem of the GS at home, and not at school). I've recently discovered the power of being able to videotape my GS. I can now send "hyperletters" to magazine editors, authors of articles, people that don't have GS's, and get all the impact of having visited them in person. I think there's a terrific new opportunity for every Apple II owner to share with others just what it is about their machine that is so great, by using video tapes as the "printer of the 90's" Topher 1 : I have used this ability on a number of ocassions....NTSC signals sure are nice... BCS Frank : LitLucy has been using gs videotapes that way too, for literacy programs. RWagnerInc: This is a great way for kids that do projects at school to take them home, so Mom and Dad can see just what's happening with Bugs Bugz : I've used them to put computer animation (ei scrolling credits in Home Videos Topher 1 : The advantage in the classroom of the large monitor rather than the videoprojector are key to the II's RWagnerInc: computers at school, and why they should support those bond issues Topher 1 : NTSC signal too RagenT : Interesting concept: like the computer is the "pen of the '90's RWagnerInc: or save those Von's coupons. (not missing the interleaved mssgs) ga AFL Gayle : Wow! That's a really great idea, Roger. I hadn't thought of that. For the Bugs Bugz : Ummm, are there porjectors out there, versus the overhead we use at school AFL Gayle : non-techies here, could you explain how you do it? Topher 1 : With NTSC...you can use any tv... RWagnerInc: Picking up with Topher, that's just it: there isn't much special Topher 1 : It is simply using the GS's signal to a video in on a vcr..... RagenT : (stupid question...NTSC?...) RWagnerInc: you have to do. Since the first Apple II was designed to be Topher 1 : TV signal RWagnerInc: used with a TV as a monitor, all Apple II's have had a standard video (also called Composite or NTSC (national television something - a Bugs Bugz : I also enjoy using the sound capabilities off the head phone jack RWagnerInc: standard, anyway) You can use a classroom monitor/TV (or the hotel TV,like I'm doing right now) as a monitor, and save the $1000 or so you'd need to display a PC or Mac image in a classroom. Topher 1 : A particularly interesting feature I have just started using is using the video RWagnerInc: If you have a VCR around, you just run the cable through the VCR Topher 1 : overlay card and hyperstudio to a VHS tape RWagnerInc: first. (ga) Topher 1 : Using xcommands with Hyperstudio Topher 1 : xcmd=external command....sorry... AFA Bard : Roger, can you talk, in general, about xcmds? Topher 1 : You can make wonderful, complex, animated title screens for your video's this way! RWagnerInc: Yep! (one note - you can run to a TV or VCR directly from the GS or IIe, but if you have Apple's Video Overlay Card, itTopher 1 is from Lemoncove, CA. cleans up the signal even more, even if you're not using the overlay ability at that moment.) About Xcmds, it's a terrible name for a simple idea. Think of them as "New Button Stuff". It's just a way that HyperStudio has of saying, "gee, if you don't like the button action choices in the standard menu, here's a way that anybody can add new button actions as modules." Xcmds are secondary files that sit in the same directory as your stack, and which HyperStudio will automatically load with your stack. If a button action has been checked as "Trigger Xcmd", then when that button is clicked, HS passes control to the loaded module (the Xcmd file). For example, suppose you wanted to display a 320 mode graphic in a stack. HS doesn't have a command called "display a 320 graphic". But, with an Xcmd, this abilty can be added. There's an example of just this idea on the HS.Art disk, that shows a 320 mode graphic in a stack. This ideas is easily extended to add all sorts of new functionality. With the Xcmds Vol. 1 package, HyperStudio gains a limited scripting ability, where you can sequence all sorts of commands in a scrolling window that essentially gives you a programming language. Some of the neat Xcmds that a out right now include automatic scrolling for scrolling credits, (which looks fabulous over a video with the overlay card!), and Xcmds that play Sound Smith sequenced music files in a stack. Both these are here in the StudioWare libraries. The Xcmds Vol. 1 package adds even more, such as control of Apple's CD-ROM drive so that you can add partial audio tracks from your favorite audio CD's, more video functions, branch to random card, dialog boxes, keyboard input, and a better DISPLAY command for 320-mode and 256-color graphics screens. ga GerryR5 : Roger, you always make everything so clear for us non-techies..takes the fear out..:) Thanks! :) AFL Gayle : Roger, can you tell us what you are working on now? Are there new enhancements coming to HyperStudio or more add-on products? AFA Bard : Thanks Roger! (For a GREAT example of xcmds, see the Stackware library in AED for SoundSmith!!!) RWagnerInc: (Also uploading soon is HyperCalendar, which is a combination GerryR5 : Are any non Apple CD Rom drives controlled also, like CD Tech's? RWagnerInc: date book and phone dialer). ... RWagnerInc: The NEC CD-ROM drive works fine with the Xcmds and HS, to my knowledge. I don't know about CD Techs. ... We've gots LOTS of irons in the fire now. More work on Xcmds, and things like clip-art disks, sound libraries, desk accessories, and more. If you want to think about something interesting, imagine for a moment that if you can click on a button to execute an Xcmd or script, wouldn't it be easy to just hold down the option key to tell the Xcmd you wanted to EDIT the actions, rather than execute them? Why, you could open a whole scrolling window and build in any kind of language you wanted, without having to make any changes at all to HyperStudio itself. LavonneS : With that Vol. 1 you could ask for a specific key input with test function? AFA Bard : (Great idea, Roger!) RWagnerInc: (Lavonne - yes) Bugs Bugz : Roger, what magazine was that voice input routine in? We talked about it before RWagnerInc: (more?)afl gayle cannot currently receive Instant Messages. Bugs Bugz : Umm voice recognition by a iigs RWagnerInc: Around the June 90 issue of 8/16 magazine (which incidentally is now published as a HyperStudio "hyperzine"!), there was an article about how to do speech recognition with the GS. I've always thought that it would be neat to combine this with HyperStudio, and Xcmds would be a great place to start. (ga) Bugs Bugz : Thanks, for others I want to try (hard) to write a voice recognition xcmd Topher 1 : Question: The power of a IIGS is truly unlocked when you install a hard drive...Have you heard of any plans by Apple to make this a standard? This is especially true of hypermedia like Hyperstudio! RWagnerInc: None, but John S. hasn't asked me to lunch in years to ask any advice. ;) ga AFL Gayle : LOL, Roger! :) Topher 1 : LOL BCS Frank : :) AFA Bard : ;)) Bugs Bugz : Do they plan to make any more upgrade to the GS? AFL Gayle : From what has been discussed in the Direct Connect area, it seems that not needing a hard drive is one of the many plusses of HyperStudio. You won't be able to use HyperCardGS without a hard drive (and more memory.) AFA Bard : I've heard that too, Gayle, but the HD is really a pleasure when you're doing demos. :) RWagnerInc: I would think that HyperCard GS would create a pressure to increase Topher 1 : True...Gayle...but it is a great enhancement...and many users will be using them with HCGS RWagnerInc: memory on the GS and add a hard disk, and you're also correct that HyperStudio is nice in that you can use it without needing the extra memory and hard disk. Topher is also correct - a hard disk is a great addition. Kind of like power steering: you RagenT : Which hard drive do you suggest, Topher? RWagnerInc: don't *really* need it, but it sure is nice to have. AFL Gayle : I agree. I don't know how I lived without a hard drive so long. ;) I really miss it on the GS at school. Topher 1 : The ones I'm using, unfortunately went belly up...wonderful drives...I use Innerdrives... RWagnerInc: I think one problem that HCGS will have to overcome is that even if the author has a hard disk and the memory, if not very much of your target audience has matching hardware, it Topher 1 : It seems that the only similar drive is the Vulcan at the moment RWagnerInc: takes some of the effectiveness out of the effort. We have enough RagenT : Thanks...I agree, Roger. RWagnerInc: problems trying to get schools to go from 512K to 1.25Mb. I too have an InnerDrive, and really like it, but as you say, the Vulcan is the only game in town these days. ga Negotiator: Roger, I am just getting started with hyperstacks. I have a Mac IIsi. What should I read ? Topher 1 : That is amazing Roger...with 256K at $20........ Bugs Bugz : I own the Waite Hypertalk bible and find it very good and simple Bugs Bugz : to follow Bugs Bugz : BUt I also prefer HS to HC RWagnerInc: Negotiator: I assume you have a GS also? The HyperTalk books are ok, but remember, HS is auto-scripting, which means that a lot Negotiator: I also have a iie RWagnerInc: of the 600 pages of those "hypercard made easy books" isn't Topher 1 : I also prefer HS to HC... RWagnerInc: directly relevant. The general idea of cards and stacks, and design guidelines are useful, but I won't worry about it if you find the scripting a little overwhelming, that is, don't let that scare you from trying HyperStudio, because that's just what makes HyperStudio unique - it's auto-scripting, and oriented to non-technical users (even though power users like Topher, Bugz, LavonneS : HS is so straight forward that those big fat books are not needed. RWagnerInc: Bard, and others can make it sit up and dance!). Interesting note: the guy that did the "Golf" commercial stack on HyperStudio RWagnerInc: first decided to then create a version for the Mac. He had to spend over $600 adding enough utilities to HyperCard to Bugs Bugz : RWagnerInc: do what he could do with HyperStudio, and duplicating the project took many times longer by a HyperCard programmer that he hired for the job than the original task in HyperStudio. "Power" is the ability to get what you want done. Don't let the fact that HyperStudio does things in a direct and simple way make you AFL Gayle : Hiya, Frank! :) [[]] RWagnerInc: think that it must not be "powerful" ('cause you're not working AFC Frank : Hi there, Gayle! {{}} RWagnerInc: hard enough? It's not like medicine - it doesn't have to taste bad to be good for you! :) BCS Frank : Mike Nuzzi's new HyperStuff Collection will be featured on the 3/12/91 BCS.... RagenT : I'm sure I'd love HS! I've been using TT(whick I like ) because of hardware restrictions... AFA Bard : Roger - can you say something about the "runtime version" of HS? (Hiya FRANK! BCS Frank : meeting ... should see lots of HyperStudio techniques. Topher 1 : Not like the PE coach says, huh Roger......;) BCS Frank : RWagnerInc: ... KathieS : Hiya Bard:) RWagnerInc: We showed some of Mike's Synth Xcmds at AppleFest, and it looks like he's going to make a number of really neat and worthwhile packages available. About the runtime version...There's not a lot to say. It's a smaller version of HyperStudio that doesn't have the editing abilities, and lets anyone who has the "real" HyperStudio create "User Disks" that can be used by anyone else with a GS without needing HyperStudio. Although HyperStudio needs a minimum 1Mb of RAM for authoring, with the run-time version, it's possible to create stacks that will run in 768K. There's no license fee for non-commercial stacks, shareware, demo disks, club disks, etc. There's a $100 license fee for commercial products in exactly the same way (and reason) that there's a similar fee for using GSOS or other Apple software in a product for commercial distribution. ga BCS Frank : The run time version can work without the HS sound card, right? ga AFA Bard : The RUNTIME version is a really terrific feature.. load AED/Stackware's MIDDLE EAST HS stack on one & you'll have a GREAT educational program! RWagnerInc: Correct, the run-time version doesn't require any special hardware at all. And YES!! For those who haven't seen HyperStudio yet, be sure to download some of the stacks that have the Bugs Bugz : It's also small enough to put on a system disk so you can keep stacks (small) on the same disk RWagnerInc: run-time version so you can see what all the excitement is about! -speaking of that, I should mention that the run-time version also makes a good startup program on networks, as a substitute for the Finder or Aristotle, and since it's half the size of HyperStudio, it loads much quicker.) ga AFA Bard : Here's a project idea for anyone that needs one -- recreate Apple's Educator HomeCard on HS!! :)) I'm sure it'll be FASTER!!! :) LavonneS : If something is done with Video Overlay Card does the user have to have one to run it? Topher 1 : The autoscripting factor in HS is also very powerful in education...students are up and creating in minutes! Yes LavonneS BCS Frank : Is there an easy way to import Cannon Xapshot pictures into HS? RWagnerInc: ... Topher 1 : But you can copy it to videotape...for all to see :) RWagnerInc: Yes, just treat the Xapshot like a video camera (because it is), and use ComputerEyes, or the new digitizer card from LRO to capture the images. Great idea Topher - that's right, the VCR captures EVERYTHING" sound, animation, videos, voice, mouse actions - you've got to see it to really see why this is almost like someone just invented the printer! ga AFA Bard : Let's not forget that HS is a powerful presentation tool too! I've tried all those MAC power-programs like MORE and Persuasion.. but I've always come back to the IIGS with HyperStudio! It cuts my work in half! AFA Bard : (Say AMEN, Roger!!) :)) RagenT : Video would be a way to get HS-made stacks to classrooms without the GS... RWagnerInc: Amen, Roger! BCS Frank : AMEN, Roger :) RWagnerInc: (halelluja, brother!) Bugs Bugz : now if you'll all place the donations in... BCS Frank : [Yup, he IS an Apple II Evangelist!] AFA Bard : LOL, Bugz! What do you see in the future of HyperStudio, Roger? RWagnerInc: RagenT: Take this VCR thought a little further, and you'll see that it's also the perfect way to get administrators, principles, teachers who aren't on to computer yet - anyone who can't/won't take the time to see what you're doing, and give them a tape to show them what real people are doing. As an added idea, if you do make such tapes,be sure to include a few minutes at the end where it shows someone making one card, or adding a video, or whatever. If you just see a great presentation, you just don't appreciate how it was made. A few minutes at the end with a 3rd grader creating something before their eyes will really enhance the overall message. Kind of like "the making of RagenT : Alright! Rather to show them what they're missing...(like me!) and all the neat things they could be doing with computers... RWagnerInc: Indiana Jones", or "Art Appreciation". AFL Gayle : I love it, Roger. "Real people" use GSes. :) AFA Bard : Real people with GS's use HS! BCS Frank : But, but... then Everyone will want to buy Hyper.Studio! RWagnerInc: I've got a new campaign where I really am sending videotapes AFL Gayle : Right, Bard. Exactly. :) AFA Bard : (Roger needs a second BMW!) :)) RWagnerInc: to newspaper, tv and magazine people, showing them stacks from Topher 1 : Students use GS's to produce quality...they spend their time creating...not learning to use the tools! AFL Gayle : (No. He needs some more colorful ties, Bard. ;) RWagnerInc: places like here on AO. I'd encourage others to do the same, Bugs Bugz : How do you convince people that give the exscuse I don't have time RWagnerInc: and say also I really like getting disks in the mail to add to my arsenal. They don't need to be finished or perfect, just good examples of what's really happening with this. (hold - I have to go look for my 1st BMW). ga Bugs Bugz : room service Roger? AFL Gayle : Upload those files to the library before you send the disk to Roger. :) AFC Frank : I'm still sitting here looking for my coupon to get my free upgrade! :) Yes, Roger, I LOST it! :) RWagnerInc: For any of you out there that haven't gotten the 2.1 update to HyperStudio, PLEASE drop us a note with your address and AFC Frank : :) LavonneS : Frank !! HOW could you just LOSE it!! Bugs Bugz : It's with the other sock from the washer I know it is! RWagnerInc: HS serial # (inside front cover of the manual), or just call our office. The update is free, and I really want to have everybody up to speed with all the neat new stuff. ga AFL Gayle : OK. Our time is up, but y'all are welcome to stay and talk. I want to announce the winners of our free hours. We dipped into our stock of hours because we had so many good words tonight. Ragen won one hour, the first one, GerryR5 : Way to go, Ragen!! :) AFL Gayle : for Hyper. Bugs Bugz won 2 hours for stacks and animation. Topher won 2 hours RagenT : I was just listening! Whoa! KathieS : Congrats ragan:) AFL Gayle : for NTSC and xcmd. Congratulations! :) GerryR5 : Congrats, Bugz and Topher! :) RagenT : Roger, can I download a demo to check out HS on my GS? EDUCATION. GerryR5 : HI Mary!!! YOU missed a great chat! You'll have to get the log! :) AFA Bard : (oops!) Topher 1 : THanks, Frank!:) Will you be at INFOCOM? RagenT : But, I won't need the HS to run them? AFL Gayle : Yes, Ragen. There are 3 demo disks, plus lots of others, like the Middle East RWagnerInc: Just make sure you AFL Gayle : one, have a RunTime module with them. Bugs Bugz : See ya, nice talking with everyone BCS Frank : No, you'll need a gs. :) RWagnerInc: get the "run-time" file (HS.Sysy16), and you'll be all set. Topher 1 : Bye Bugs! AFA Bard : And the SoundSmith xcmds.. they're wonderful! MaryEz : I just got my HyperStudio. Question can I interact with the Pioneer LV4200 now? GerryR5 : NIght, Bugs! :) RWagnerInc: Topher: sorry to say, I'll be leaving Thurs. and so will miss RagenT : Thanks! LavonneS : Ragen, break loose and get HS, you will really be glad if you do. AFL Gayle : Thanks SO much to Roger for coming. :) RWagnerInc: InfoCom. Please put in a good word for us though, if you get the chance! Thanks very much to you all for attending, and to AO for th invite! GA AFA Bard : ()()()()()()()() Roger! Topher 1 : You bet MaryEz....the pioneer and HS are a marrage made in heaven! AFA Bard : Congrats again on your FOUR awards and good luck at the Florida conference! RagenT : Yes, I will! BCS Frank : Topher puts in very good words. :) MaryEz : Thank, Topher--Thanks RagenT : Topher you were great! BCS Frank : As always, a pleasure to meet with you, Roger. :) Topher 1 : Truely! LavonneS : Ragen, can Tutor Tech stacks be run without the program? AFL Gayle : Yes, Lavonne. You can run them with the Tutor Tech demo that is available in the library. LavonneS : Thanks Roger I am getting that workshop together and looking forward to it RagenT : Yes, with the demo. RWagnerInc: Oh yes... one last thing: Be sure to tell EVERYONE MaryEz : I have had great fun incorporating ComputerEyes pictures into stacks. Family tree, you know!:) RWagnerInc: that we now offer a "Multimedia Test Drive", aka the RagenT : It was a great forum. I logged it so I can go over it and understand it all... RWagnerInc: "Workshop in a Box". This is a free loan of 10-20 copies of HyperStudio, plus touchwindow, video digitizer, hand scanner, laserdisc, and 50 page workbook for a 2 hour to 2 day workshop on hypermedia, FREE to any school that wants to organize aworkshop! They can call 800-421-6526. ga BCS Frank : Are you using theVitesse Quickie scanner for that? ga RWagnerInc: yes - Vitesse Quickie. ga AFL Gayle : Also, I'd like to announce that the HyperStudio Forum, a newsletter devoted to AFA Bard : (::: drooling!!! :::) Now you've REALLY got my attention, Roger! Will call Della next week!!!!! AFL Gayle : educational uses of HyperStudio, will be opening an area in our SIGs (SpecialInterest Groups) soon. BCS Frank : Dynamite!! :) RWagnerInc: WOW!!! I'd like to encourage everyone to give them your AFL Gayle : Our guest next week will be Dave Lampert to tell us about another HyperMedia GerryR5 : Great, Gayle!!!! :) RWagnerInc: best support and encouragement. They are independent of RWP, AFL Gayle : product, Tutor Tech. RWagnerInc: but have done a great job of supporting the GS and HyperStudio. ga AFA Bard : Thanks again, Roger. Let me remind the folks in our audience that the log of this chat will be posted LavonneS : Roger, do we need a special version of HS to put it on AppleTalk network and what kind of site license do we need for that? RWagnerInc: Bard/Gayle: please try to make sure the Workshop in a Box is also included - thanks. AFA Bard : tomorrow evening! ;) Thanks to EVERYONE for coming! RWagnerInc: yes there is a special version needed for the network, but AFA Bard : (Will do, Roger!) Topher 1 : {{{{all}}}}} AFL Gayle : Yes. It will all be in the log, Roger. :) Thanks. RWagnerInc: just ask for it when you order the site license. My thanks to everyone again. hope to see you all soon! AFL Gayle : Thank YOU, Roger, for a great chat and an incredible project! :) RWagnerInc: Thanks, Gayle. I've got to go pretty quick, but if there any last "informal" questions, I've got time for just one or two more? ga LavonneS : Roger there is a great tie store on the inner harbor in Baltimore if you Topher 1 : Do you plan to get a tan in Tampa? LavonneS : ever get there AFL Gayle : Bard, any last minute ones or any one else? RagenT : Thanks again for a wonderful night out! and for the free hour! Goodnight, all. Topher 1 : Night RAgen BCS Frank : Are you coming to Boston soon, Roger? :) BCS Frank : Night, Ragen AFL Gayle : Good night, Ragen! I'm sure you'll be here next week. Topher 1 : Night Roger.... AFL Gayle : Good night, Roger. :) AFA Bard : Nite folks!!!!! 2/3/91 9:16:18 PM Closing file.