2/17/91 8:00:56 PM Opening "CHAT021791" for recording. GuyKitSink AFL Marty GerryR5 AFA Candy AFL Gayle Pichi1 AFA Bard AFL Dennis Kira R AFL Gayle : Welcome to the Apple // Education Forum! AFL Gayle : Please check your HotShot for the schedule AFL Gayle : of conferences for this rest of this week. AFL Gayle : This month in AED we are featuring our Master2 : Anyone know of any hardware companies willing to donate hardware for free Master2 : advertising? AFL Gayle : Direct Connect members. Our guest tonight AFL Gayle : is Guy Forsythe. Our discussion will be AFL Gayle : about Kitchen Sink Software's Products. AFL Gayle : AFL Gayle : Some of these include a gradebook program AFL Gayle : and a CAD program. I have two free hours to AFL Gayle : give away tonight to the two lucky people AFL Gayle : who are the first to say the secret words AFL Gayle : that Bard and I will be looking for. We AFL Gayle : don't use protocol here. AFL Gayle : We ask that you try to not interrupt AFL Gayle : someone else, but please feel free to ask AFL Gayle : your questions at any time. Welcome, Guy! Master2 : :::Clap::: AFA Bard : :)) Remember, you must say something to win the free hours so speak up! :)) AFL Gayle : Master, as for your question, no, I don't. The Hardware Forum (keyword AHW) GuyKitSink: Thanks, I am not a fast typist but I will get to all questions/comments. AFL Gayle : might be a better source for answers to that particular question. GuyKitSink: Thanks for coming to those who are here. AFL Gayle : OK, Guy. Your first question from Gerry-- Where did the name Kitchen Sink AFL Gayle : Software come from? Master2 : Yeah, but thought I'd see if anyone here knew sense I was here. AFL Gayle : Then could you give us an brief overview of your company's products, please? GuyKitSink: Before I got married I did a lot og backpacking. I invented a bag for AFL Gayle : (Although everyone can read all about them later in the Direct Connect, too. :) GuyKitSink: cooking item and thought about hoing into production. GuyKitSink: I didn't but when I started in software I used the name at my wife's suggestion GuyKitSink: We publish a lot of porducts, over twenty at the moment... AFL Gayle : Well, it's definitely a catchy name that makes people want to find out more AFL Gayle : about your programs. :) GerryR5 : GMTA, Gayle! :) GuyKitSink: They incude Amazing Window Gradesheet of which a demo is in the software library. Our fisrt CAD system, CADDRAW, was big seller to schools, and still is. Our new drawing package, AccuDraw, is much more powerful and is out mina graphics product now. We have a dozen file disks of predrawn plans for both programs. We aslos have programs for CNC (computer numerical control) for apple//. MAC and IBM. And we have MicroDot which is an interface between AFA Bard : (For a TERRIFIC review of Kitchen Sink's AMAZING WINDOW see the FEB/MAR. 91 issue of Enhance available free from Quality Computers. GuyKitSink: Applesoft and PropDOS and is much more powerful and much smaller than BASIC.SYSTEM. Several companies, including Wings for Learning, have licensed MicroDot. They use it to convert RAM hungry DOS 3.3 programs, such as The Factory, to ProDOS. Robot Assembly Lab has become a popular program fpor creative probblem solving. The rest are technology education specific. KipKippley: How can we get a catalog of products? GuyKitSink: That is a summary of what we have, JanLynn : Can you tell me about the robot assembly lab? GuyKitSink: You sure can get a catalog. Call (614) 891-211 or write to: Kitchen Sink Softeare, Inc. 903 Knebworth Ct. Westerville, OH 43081 GuyKitSink: IN Robot Assembly Lab, you design robots using 64 stock components. The robots Master2 : Are you presently going through any companies to sell your products? GuyKitSink: being esigned must meet the contract criteria of the ordering customer. The program reviews your design and rewards a contract with a commision to the designer or the designer looses money for the analysis fee. We publish all our software, but many companies carry our products. The boggestYour message has been added to the folder. GuyKitSink: 3 are: Quality Computers, Fastrack and Hearlihy & Co. Not all carry all productsain the catalog, but all can order any of our products... AFA Candy : Guy, could you compare your gradebook to GradeBusters 1/2/3? That's all I have used. Master2 : Are you looking for more companies to sell your products? GuyKitSink: In fact, Educational Resources has sold quite a few Robot Assembly Labs. KipKippley: The phone number was short one digit also, Guy. GuyKitSink: We will sel through any dealers and like dealer sales, so yes, we are looking GuyKitSink: Sorry on the phone number (614) 891-2111 GuyKitSink: I have never used gradebusters but I have heard they are very similar. Ours is unprotected and licneses are cheap. They have a few more features (I think) AFL Gayle : There is a demo in our libraries, Candy. I think it's in the Teacher's Tools AFA Candy : At $1 per/teacher, you certainly have a great price! AFL Gayle : Library now. Is that right, Bard? GuyKitSink: I would suggest trying the demo in the software library. Experienced users AFA Bard : Right! GuyKitSink: can probably test it without looking at the docs. Master2 : Is there anyone in particular I should contact about dealer sales? GuyKitSink: My wiofe and I are all of Kitchen Sink. We run it out of our home... GuyKitSink: I am still a full time techer at Westerville South High School where I teach DougB5 : So that's where you got the name? :) JanLynn : Guy, are most of your programs designed totally for schools, cost-wise? AFL Gayle : Sort of, Doug. It came from his wife. ;) Check out the log later for details.:) GuyKitSink: Drafting, Robotics amd advanced photograpgy. I also teach 8th grade tech AFA Bard : (Welcome Danny!, M. Tiernan, Rich!) GuyKitSink: Yeah, I run all ideas by Cindy. I have a dry humor that not everyone gets. Rich Chatt: has anyone seen lit.reed? GuyKitSink: I really liked ACME Software, but most folks didn't get the joke. Master2 : Can you give us an idea on prices for your products? AFA Bard : Quality Computers: Amazing Windows $39.95 GuyKitSink: Amazing Window: $39,95 AccuDraw $99.95 CNC Trainer $69,95 MicroDot $30 QC has a $5.00 discount coupon on the order form page. Master2 : Sounds good. Too bad I can't stay, but I will definately be calling for a Master2 : catalog. AFA Candy : <----Needs modem to test new local BBS. I'll be back :) M Tiernan : DENNIS! GuyKitSink: AccuDraw is very near done. It does things that a MAC won't do in most MAC... Katherin38: Whew !!! AFA Bard : Welcome Kennis, Katherine! AFL Dennis: (Hiya Mike) GuyKitSink: programs. It is a very powerful design program that works like a pint program M Tiernan : Mr Frank, what's a BCS? AFL Gayle : BCS=Boston Computer Society BCS Frank : Thanks :) JanLynn : Guy, are these products for the Apple II line? or just the Mac? AFL Gayle : Bite your tongue, Jan! This is an Apple // forum! ;) (Just kidding...) They AFL Gayle : run on an Apple //. GuyKitSink: They are ALL for the Apple //. We are woking on MAC/IBM porting, but things go BCS Frank : [That's Mike Tiernan, our BCSApple II UNIX specialist] GuyKitSink: slow when you work full time. By the way, all our authors are full time... M Tiernan : I use a mac, it holds my Apple //e up so I can see it. GuyKitSink: educators. AFA Bard : Now THAT I like, Guy! I knew your programs were backed by someone who knew what they were doing! I M Tiernan : The only thing that should be mouse driven is a CAT! AFA Bard : highly recommend Guy's Gradebook, BTW! Katherin38: <-----uses dead IBM's for book ends... AFL Gayle : LOL! I like that sentiment, Mike. :) GuyKitSink: I got a question about profits that I feel comfortable answering in public. AFL Gayle : (Except all of our cats are too lazy to chase mice. We have to use traps. ;) GuyKitSink: It is a LOT of work and I make twice as much teaching... buit I meet neat peopl Katherin38: ;) Katherin38: Hi Kit..:) Katherin38: <----being Nice...Grin M Tiernan : <<< ---- Me too. GuyKitSink: And my wife and I are commited to her being a homemaker. Working out of the... GuyKitSink: home is a great solution for us. JanLynn : How much does the robots program cost? GuyKitSink: Robot Assembly Lab is $49.95 JanLynn : that's reasonable GuyKitSink: We charge $2.50 sahipping regardless of ordr size. Catalogs are free. GuyKitSink: License fees for mutiple users are generally $10 per computer. KipKippley: Twice as much as teaching? Gee, how could THAT ever happen? JanLynn : Will your address be noted again, I have a very unhappy small child here, JanLynn : but I'd like to get your catalog. GuyKitSink: No yo got it backward... I make twice as much teaching as I do in software. AFL Gayle : Guy, someone else asked... could they send you their addresses email to get AFL Gayle : a catalog? AFL Gayle : (Catalog by US Mail, of course. :) GuyKitSink: A ot of people think I have made a fortune. I make much more teaching. GuyKitSink: I read all my email and you can requwest a catalog that way. KipKippley: That means you work three jobs then? (just kidding!) AFA Bard : Kit.Sink. 903 Knebworth Ct. Westerville, OH 43081 AFL Gayle : Keep those questions coming. One free hour has been won, but we still have GuyKitSink: There are some big names in Apple // software who are supported by their wives AFL Gayle : another one to give away. :) GuyKitSink: as they attempt to make it in software. KipKippley: I liked the new Enhance Catalog. It read like a teacher's newsletter and product announcement. BCS Frank : Are all your products 8-bit Apple II programs? GuyKitSink: I'll tell the folks at QC. All our programs are 8 bit.... GuyKitSink: We o things on a //e you can NOT do on a GS because the toolbox cannot handle i GuyKitSink: The gs is kinda limiting on design graphics posibilities. KipKippley: GS compatibility ISN'T in this case? BCS Frank : Can they be done on a gs in IIe emulation? GuyKitSink: We do thingsa in scale, the tolbox is set up for paint programs. GuyKitSink: They do all run on a gs. BCS Frank : That is can your programs be booted & run on gs's? BCS Frank : Phew! worried there for a minute. :) GuyKitSink: They run under ProDOS 8 so they can be run from the finder or directly booted. BCS Frank : Thought I might have to get an LC Mac with IIe card. :) KipKippley: Bite your tongue, Frank! AFL Gayle : LOL, Frank! ;) Certainly, you could scrape up a //e or //c to use. ;) BCS Frank : ouch!!!! AFL Marty : ---===[}} Frank BCS Frank : yum :) GuyKitSink: I just got my LC Friday. The //e card isn't available yet. Most of my old MAC software doesn't work correctly under the new system. KipKippley: Of course not! That would be too productive! BCS Frank : Yup, another great reason too buy all new Mac software. GuyKitSink: We intend to make sure our softwaree works on the LC. AFL Gayle : BTW, we have AFL Marty from the Productivity Forum (keyword APR) to thank for KipKippley: With those tax dollars which are in over abundance! AFA Bard : Anyone out there tried Kit Sink's Gradebook program? AFL Gayle : bringing Guy online in the first place. :) Thanks, Marty. :) BCS Frank : Great, that's developer responsibility. GuyKitSink: We make sure all our software works on everything from unenhanced //e's to ... gs's to Lasers (they are a pain as are the unenhanced //e's). When possible... we write for 40 column so they work on a //+. Hard to do nowadays. BCS Frank : Have you tried the new Beagle program for remapping LC keys for IIe emulation? AFL Gayle : Do your programs require 128K to run or just 64K, Guy? GuyKitSink: They all run under 64k, but some work much faster with 128k as we use the ... extra memory for program segment strorage. KipKippley: Do they all load into RAM for quick access? (Rather than disk access?) DougB5 : So you say that operating a software company out of your home pays half as GuyKitSink: AccuDraw even looks for extra RAM beyond 128 as it attempts to preload ... DougB5 : much as teaching? GuyKitSink: evertything. GuyKitSink: That is what I said. But keep in mind we had a big winner with CADDRAW in 1984 GuyKitSink: And it is still out #1 seller. We have sold over 6000 copies, most through... KipKippley: What would you say is your most popular and productive software package? KipKippley: Should have waited ... DougB5 : Caddraw? Wow... am I right in thinking that that's the only decent CAD program DougB5 : for the Apple II series, GS included? GuyKitSink: dealers. It was the first Apple // program to do accurate scale printouts.. GuyKitSink: on a dot matrix printer. GuyKitSink: There are no CAD programs specifically for the gs. AccuDraw is as good as it.. GuyKitSink: gets. Drawings up to 26 by 26 screens with plus layers. In rough resolutions DougB5 : Did you guys make Do Your Own Landscape? GuyKitSink: like CADDRAW to fine resolutions (72 DPI) like the MAC. GuyKitSink: No we wish we did. I have talked to Don on the phone. A nice guy. His soft.. GuyKitSink: ware is neat, but not accurate to scale. I don't think his background is in GuyKitSink: drafting and design like mine. AFA Bard : So, Guy... what's KIT SINK got in the pipeline??? (::curious::) DougB5 : CadDraw GS? :) I'd buy it! GuyKitSink: We are finishing up AccuDraw and then rewriting Robot Assembly Lab... DougB5 : The GS ->REALLY<- could use a great GS-specific Cad program... I'd buy five DougB5 : of them! :) I love AutoCad on my school's IBMs GuyKitSink: Then some small utilities for technology education. Then I want to do a GuyKitSink: robotics simulator that will let you program a robot graphic on screen... GuyKitSink: then dump the results to a Fischer Tecnics, ~ProArm or other robot. I have GuyKitSink: done it one a limited acale in mt classes, but it is real crude right now. AFA Bard : I love the robot idea!! GuyKitSink: GS CAD is not realistic because the five you by would represent 50% of the BCS Frank : Skip :) GuyKitSink: potential market. Harbard : Howdy, Frank! DougB5 : :( ... GS sales are doing poorly, I know... BCS Frank : Wait 'til Apple advertises them. :) GuyKitSink: Since the LC won't run gs software, the gs is in for hard times. DougB5 : How does the IBM educational software market compare to the Apple's, nowadays? AFL Gayle : But Doug is doing a lot of wonderful HyperStudio stacks for GSes that are AFL Gayle : educational. :) Check them out in the libraries here. :) GuyKitSink: I know that I am going to have to start writting for the IBM and MAC more. DougB5 : Thanks, Gayle! I just finished Sierpinski Gasket stack, and according to DougB5 : Bard, it's up on the library now! plug plug plug GuyKitSink: They are gaining market share and that has to be reckoned with. AFL Gayle : Yes, I saw it, Doug. I hope it can teach me what you're even talking about. ;) DougB5 : Oh Gayle it's not complicated at all... you can take any subject at all, GuyKitSink: Rogers editorial in InCider was rigfht on the mark. Too bad Apple doesn't care DougB5 : throw it into a 30 card hyperstack, and make it look complicated! DougB5 : I think the average Apple employee cares greatly about the kind of thing DougB5 : that Roger was referring to... too bad they're powerless AFL Gayle : No, Doug. You've got it backwards. You take the complicated topic and make it AFL Gayle : understandable. :) Harbard : hehe, Gayle .) AFL Gayle : OK. It's time to announce our two lucky winners for tonight! One person would GerryR5 : Sorry everyone..buried in IMs here..I WILL send for Guy's catalog tho..:) AFL Gayle : have won, but left early, so, alas, those hours were given to someone else who GuyKitSink: Thanks AFL Gayle : IS still here. :) KipKippley wins one hour for productive. DougB5 wins one GerryR5 : Congrats!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :) AFL Gayle : hour for average. :) Congratulations! :) Applause KipKippley: Allllright!!! AFA Bard : ()()()()()()()()()()() Yea! Doug and Kip!!! BCS Frank : Kip & Doug!!! Way to Go!!! Harbard : Congrats to both!! ()()()()()()()() KipKippley: Let's take a victory lap around the software library, Doug! GuyKitSink: Where's Groucho and his bird? AFA Bard : Duck.. here comes a pie! -------------------[} Harbard : Say the secret woid and win a hundred dollahs.. AFL Gayle : Be SURE you read the HotShot before you leave! A SPECIAL chat on Tuesday at DougB5 : another free hour from AED! Thanks a lot, you guys! Harbard : -------------====[} {]====------------- GuyKitSink: A victory lap? And use up your hour? :) Congrats! BCS Frank : Ohh, there's a lot of Marx Bros in this here AOL system. :) KipKippley: Stereo pies? AFL Gayle : 1:45 pm with the music students from the Soviet Union! :) Next week, Joe will AFL Gayle : be here on Sunday to tell us more about the Bering Bridge link to the Soviet AFL Gayle : Union. AFA Bard : ALSO.. check out the EDGAR ALLEN POE stackware just released in AED's NEW FILES library! BCS Frank : Nifty! KipKippley: See ya'll next week!! AFA Bard : Thank you ALL for coming! AFL Gayle : 8 pm as usual, and 2 free hours to be won. :) Harbard : They are harder for whoever I insert between them to duck, Kip .) AFA Candy : G'night All :) GuyKitSink: Thanks for coming everybody! AFA Bard : G'night, Candy! BCS Frank : Great product, great chat Guy & Gayle. Thanks! AFL Gayle : A BIG Applause to our guest, Guy from Kitchen Sink Software! DougB5 : Thanks Gayle and AFA and GuyKitSink! I'll be sure to show up on Tuesday! KipKippley: BTW, the HyperStudio demo disks are GREAT!!! (All 10 of them!) AFL Gayle : You can post your questions for him in Direct Connect here in AED. KipKippley: Call Roger Wagner Publishing! BCS Frank : Gotta run, bye all....... AFA Bard : Bye Frank! Harbard : I'm gonna wander too, folks... see everyone later on.. AFA Bard : Later Skipster! Harbard : .) DougB5 : Bard, did you happen to catch that clip from Saturday Night Live with DougB5 : the "Macintosh Jr."? AFA Bard : Nope.. tell me about it! DougB5 : Oh it was a riot! They had two little tykes sitting around a lunch table, AFL Gayle : Yes, Doug. I want to hear about it! :) KipKippley: Those HYPERSTUDIO disks are great for workshops etc. We even have them up on DougB5 : and a third kid came in, sat down, and presenting his big report which he KipKippley: our BBS system in Omaha (legally!) We wrote for permission! DougB5 : did on his new computer. There were digitized graphics, cool fonts, etc.. DougB5 : and he showed them to his friends at the lunch table and said, "Look what DougB5 : I did on my new computer"... or something to that effect... AFL Gayle : Thanks for the tip, Kip. :) DougB5 : and then he left. The two friends were sitting there with their mouths DougB5 : open still, in awe over the amazing thing their friend did on his computer. KipKippley: Gayle, you're a poet! ;-) DougB5 : And one kid says to the other, "Wow! My dad bought me a computer, but it DougB5 : can't do any of that...." AFL Gayle : LOL! Only by accident, Kip. ;) DougB5 : and the other kid says, "yeah, so did mine..." KipKippley: I'm waiting for the punchline Doug ... DougB5 : The first kid says, "I guess that's because we're stupid"... the DougB5 : second kid says "Oh no, it's just because our dad bought us crummy computers" DougB5 : and the first kid says, "Yeah. I guess we have crummy dads" DougB5 : and then the screen fades, and a sort of backwards Apple logo appears on DougB5 : the screen, and beneath it "The new Macintosh Jr. from Apple: " DougB5 : "Macintosh Jr.: the power to CRUSH the other kids!" AFA Bard : Arghhh! Sorry I missed THAT one! ROTFL!!!! A new motto!!!!!!! LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AFL Gayle : LOL! :) Thanks for sharing that, Doug. :) KipKippley: On that note ... (Eb!) See you next week! Bye all!! DougB5 : You betcha! Later! AFA Bard : Whatta way to close a log! Thanks for coming, Doug. 2/17/91 9:09:18 PM Closing file.