********* Chat Log : Apple // Education Forum -- January 20, 1991 ********** AFL Gayle Well, I guess most everyone is enjoying their holiday. Our topic tonight is software for teaching mathematics. I guess I'll start out. We've had the programs for years, but the DLM Arcademic Math programs are still top favorites at my school. (Alligator Mix; Meteor Multiplication; Minus Mission) It seems we've had math programs from the very beginning. Most of them, like BCS Frank hmmm.. to ed math software topic I bring a shining ignorance. AFL Gayle these, center around those basic math facts the kids just can't seem to memorize. RagenT I know those, the kids in our school like Multiplicaton puzzles and Quotient AFL Gayle Welcome, Yuri! :) We're discussing Math Software. RagenT Quest.. There is a lot of drill and practice around. AFL Gayle What companies make those programs, Ragen? Yuri Hello AFL Gayle Yes. Most of our math stuff is basic drill and practice. BCS Frank Hi, Yuri GerryR5 I recently found out that textbook companies are writing software to accompany their books..and some AFL Gayle Are you a teacher, Yuri? Yuri No, my wife is a Math teacher in Intermediate school. GerryR5 are writing some new things that sound very good..you might look into those if you haven't GerryR5 already.. RagenT I don't remember, MECC? AFL Gayle Sounds right, Ragen. Can you give us some company names, Gerry? GerryR5 Wish I could Gayle...but... RagenT Math Rabbit is a favorite with the little guys. AFL Gayle What programs are your wife's favorites, Yuri? Right. The kids like all of the Learning Company Rabbit programs. (Reader and GerryR5 all I can say now is watch for them..check with the publishers of series you use. They are finally AFL Gayle Writer Rabbit, too) GerryR5 starting to realize computers are a force..;) AFL Gayle Hi, Marty! :) A math teacher... :) BCS Frank Hi, Marty GerryR5 MY favorite for basic facts is Math Blaster PLus by Davidson..here in IC..makes it fun for the kids, AFL Gayle Yes, but they usually want lots of extra money for them, too, Gerry. Or at GerryR5 so they work harder...my own kids are an example of that.. AFL Gayle least that was our experience with geography textbooks. GerryR5 HI Marty!!!!! :) BCS Frank Do the math drill programs really help that much? GerryR5 They helped my kids.. RagenT Hi Marty! AFL Gayle Yes, that's a good one, Gerry. TEACHER jn is their representative online, too. Frank, I think it motivates the kids to learn the facts faster. Several of our teachers make them drill on it until they get them right. (Of course, some of GerryR5 IT sure beats the flash cards that schools are still using...;( AFL Gayle these students are already in junior high. :( AFL Marty Hi AFL Gayle Do you have any favorite math programs, Marty? RagenT Especially if the alternative is ditto drill sheets. AFL Marty I haven't taught math in quite a few years... AFL Gayle Welcome, Bard! :) AFA Bard Evenin' Folks! GerryR5 HI Bard! :) RagenT Hi Bard:) BCS Frank Hmmm... cards and drill sheets sure cost alot less. AFL Marty still, Sunburst programs seem to have left a good impression on me. AFA Bard Sorry I'm late. Things are hoppin' at CNN. RagenT ie Challenge Math? GerryR5 "Santa" brought Michael the new Outnumbered, by Learning Company..for another nameless computer that AFL Gayle That's definitely true, Ragen. Any news, Bard? AFL Marty The Factory, Super Factors, Teasers by Tobbs for instance GerryR5 that siome schools use..;) it is hard for him..but challenges thijnking along with drill & practice AFL Gayle Welcome, Negotiator. :) GerryR5 HI Negotiator... AFA Bard Don't forget Geometric Supposer, Marty. :) RagenT I've seen The Factory, it's pretty good. AFA Bard Nothing too positive, Gayle. AFL Marty Another excellent program. AFL Gayle Right, Marty. And those are thinking skills, unlike the drill and practice AFA Bard Welcome Kathie! AFL Gayle ones we've been talking about. My favorite thing about Sunburst is their GerryR5 HI Kathie! :) Negotiator Hi all, I just am getting my new Mac IIsi running and this is my first day with it AFL Gayle life time replacement policy of their disks. KathieS Hi Everyone:) AFL Marty That's not to say that drill and practice doesn't have its place. AFL Marty It would be a shame to concentrate on one at the expense of the other. GerryR5 Congrats, Negotiator! :) AFL Gayle Agreed, Marty. Gerry said it helped her children. AFA Bard Yes, Gayle, and Sunburst recently announced a reduction in their netware prices. BCS Frank Hi, Kathie KathieS Hi BFrank:) AFL Gayle What are your favorite math programs, Bard and Kathie? AFA Bard I like Sunburst (GMTA Marty) and Broderbund's Geometry is terrific, too. Welcome Jonathan! AFL Gayle Welcome, Jonathan! KathieS Gayle, I'm really new at this...don't have a math program yet any suggestions? Jonathan31 HI AFL Gayle What age level, Kathie? AFL Marty What level of math, Kathie? KathieS First year college AFA Bard You need math software for yourself, or future students? KathieS both AFL Marty What math course in particular? These days "first year college" could AFL Marty mean an Algebra I course. KathieS You got it Marty:) AFL Gayle AlgeBlaster, Kathie. Made by Davidson Software AFL Marty There's a new one... ALgeBlaster Plus I think it's called. AFL Gayle Right. Thanks for the reminder, Marty. KathieS Thanks Gayle and Marty:) AFA Bard Algeblaster (Davidson) is great. TrueBasic's also got a program called "Algebra" that's terrific. GerryR5 Yes, Marty...that looks like a great program..;) AFL Gayle Davidson has a forum in the Industry Connection online, Kathie. They might have AFA Bard Borlund's got a program called EUREKA and then there's the MONSTER called MATHEMATICA, if you have access to a Mac. AFL Marty If you can't find anything to address your needs you can always write AFL Gayle more information about the program there. AFL Marty your own program with hyperStudio or Tutor Tech. Negotiator Mathematica has a demo program available so that you can see its power. AFA Bard Right, Negotiator. You can get it by contacting Wolfram Research (the vendor) or your nearest Apple software dealer. GerryR5 Have any of you used that program? :) AFL Marty Interesting name, Wolfram. AFL Gayle Hi, Lavonne! :) We're talking about math software. AFA Bard Lavonne! Welcome! Yep, Gerry. It's primarily designed with 11th and 12th graders in mind! LavonneS Hi Gayle,Bard,Marty,Gerry and everybody! AFL Marty afk downloading BCS Frank Hi, Lavonne AFL Gayle What are your favorite math software programs, Lavonne? BCS Frank Marty, it looks like IMHO that we can write math programs in HCgs as well. LavonneS I saw DLM Math Fluency program when it was being used in research with spec ed LavonneS population. AFL Gayle True, Frank. LavonneS I use it now for development of fluency with math facts. AFA Bard Lavonne, can you describe that program? BCS Frank HC has some nice random functions for generating problems. Jonathan31 ANYONE HAVE ANY IDEAS FOR A SCIENCE FAIR? LavonneS It is like flash cards with excellent monitoring and management piece. AFA Bard Is it networkable, Lavonne? LavonneS It has reinforcement game LavonneS I think it is but DLM has priced it unreasonably high I feel LavonneS I do not know the price for network version but on stand alone machine each LavonneS child needs his own disk on which his record is kept AFL Gayle Oh. That WOULD be expensive. :( Do they have lab pack options? LavonneS A lab pack is 5 student disks and one teacher utility disk Negotiator Call the company. You may be able to swing a site licence deal. AFL Gayle Still not terribly affordable then, even for an exceptional children's classroom. GerryR5 I got bumped..;( BCS Frank ReHi, Gerry LavonneS But even that will only serve 5 students, and in my self contained I had 11. AFL Gayle Guess some of those bugs got in the phone lines, Gerry. ;) BCS Frank Is there anything in the way of shareware math programs? AFA Bard Rehi, Gerry! AFL Gayle Hmmm... Bard, can you answer Frank's question? BCS Frank And would schools ever buy shareware? AFA Bard There are a few goodies in our AED Math library. One program, in particular, is a pretty terrific flashcard-maker program. RagenT That sounds neat!' GerryR5 HI Lynda! L( GerryR5 :) AFA Bard Also... there are quite a few PD AppleWorks spreadsheets that will give your kids a run for their money! Hiya Lynda! Welcome to the Apple // Education Chat! LyndaG4 hi BCS Frank Hmmm... I like the idea of AW spreadsheets :) Negotiator National Council of Teachers of Mathematics has some programs avaiable on disk from the magazine. AFA Bard We're talking about mathematics software, Lynda. Got any favorite programs? RagenT Have you seen Fay That Woman by DIdatech for little people? RagenT It's a pretty good program using number lines. LyndaG4 I have a more generic concern - electronic worksheets vs 'thought' programs AFL Gayle Yes, Ragen. My Exceptional Children's teachers really like that one. What is your opinion on that topic, Lynda? LyndaG4 I have a concern when children are only exposed to worksheets - they develop LyndaG4 a notion that computers are simply fact sheets BCS Frank Lynda, with "report modes" like ReportWriter, can't they be joined together? GerryR5 I think there is room for both types of instruction,, GerryR5 HI Katherine!! :) LyndaG4 Depends on the training of the teachers AFL Gayle Well, but doesn't every method that's used in the classroom depend upon the training of the teacher? RagenT That's very important. If a teacher plops students infront of computer as a AFA Bard Welcome Gary, Katherin! BCS Frank Ahhh... another reason for teacher computer literacy. RagenT babysitter, I can see real concern. AFA Bard We're chatting about math software. Gary24 Thenaks, it is nice to be here Katherin38 Hi Bard AFL Gayle Define what you mean by teacher computer literacy, please, Frank. LavonneS Costly as DLM program is , it Does Work for special needs kids. It builds in RagenT Many teachers love the drill and practice stuff for this reason. LavonneS monitoring of speed so that fluency is built not allowing counting strategies BCS Frank Ability and familiarity by teachers with computers AFL Gayle That's really important, Lavonne. BCS Frank and with software. AFA Bard Welcome to the Education Forum, Gary! LyndaG4 My concern also stems from the success of manipulatives in teaching math LyndaG4 concepts vs skill/drill. Where does computer fit? News standards place Gary24 I did not want to interrupt until I saw the flow of conversation, but thanks for the welcome AFL Gayle So do you think teachers should use more manipulatives and less computer? LyndaG4 it in every grade level - but could open the door for misuse RagenT Our school system uses a lot of manipulatives too. AFL Gayle Whose new standards, Lynda? LyndaG4 If the computer is a manipulative, then the software has to allow for LyndaG4 manipulation rather than drill AFL Gayle Yes, manipulatives are big in our state, too. RagenT But that is the starting point in math which should build to being able to RagenT do math in the more abstract sense. I'd say computers would be a LyndaG4 National Council of Teachers of Math published standards which address LyndaG4 what our students should know RagenT semi-abstract somewhere between concrete and abstract. AFA Bard Agreed, Lynda. NCTM sees the role of computers (and calculators) as a complement to manipulatives and other educational aids. Do you see a niche for computers in the math classroom? LavonneS I agree Ragen, I think they come with transfer from concrete to more abstract AFL Gayle How does NCTM recommend using computers at each grade level? RagenT Kind of a bridge between the two if used correctly. LyndaG4 I see a niche for computers in every classroom LavonneS There is a little public domain program that the child can launch a rocket by LavonneS correct computation of simple add and sub. That got one of my kids to see LyndaG4 NCTM established strands - can't remember all - which includes computers LavonneS the reason NOT to input any old answer and wait for adult help to arrive AFA Bard ()()()() Lynda! (me too!) Here's what NCTM says about the use of technology (Standards, 1989)... LyndaG4 for each division - K-4, 5-8, 9-12 AFA Bard - appropriate calculators should be available to all students - a computer should be available in EVERY classroom for demonstration purposes - every student should have access to a computer for individual and group work BCS Frank Hmmmm... could those guidelines be posted online here? AFA Bard - students should learn to use the computer as a tool for processing information and performing BCS Frank ahhh... thanks :) AFA Bard calculatoins to investigate and solve problems. Done. :)) (sure Frank!) AFL Gayle Bard is "posting" them now in the log, Frank. (Thanks, Bard! :) AFA Bard calculations ^^^^^ BCS Frank Fast he is! AFL Gayle I'm just curious as to how close/far we are to reaching these "standards." Does anyone here work in a school where there is a computer in every classroom? LavonneS I do GerryR5 OUr school took them out..put them in a lab..;( AFL Gayle Just one in each classroom, Lavonne? Is there a lab, too? LyndaG4 I am in a system where each elementary school has a lab with 20 IIGS plus RagenT We did. LyndaG4 a computer in each grade level unit with no more than 4 classes per AFL Gayle Ah, but some research says computers are better utilized in labs than LavonneS One in every classroom, two classrooms with 4, media center with 5 in a cluster AFL Gayle classrooms, Gerry. LyndaG4 but the issue of teacher training arises RagenT Our Junior High has a locked up lab. AFL Gayle Who is responsible for the maintenance and upkeep of the computers in the classrooms? AFA Bard Now that's a HOT typic, Lynda! So many machines, so little knowledge of strategies to use them! GerryR5 Not if it means they don't get used, Gayle..;) LyndaG4 Also, I maintain that our children should control the machine - not the other GerryR5 Yes, Ragen..ours is also locked..I can't even get in to help..;) AFL Gayle Well, Gerry, in the classrooms, they often don't get used, either. I know a RagenT It was me. LyndaG4 way around, so the software should be responsive to the needs and age AFL Gayle school in our county where there are computers in the classrooms. None of them are even NEAR a plug. :( AFA Bard Right, Lynda. That's why I dislike integrated learning systems... it's like the cart driving the horse. RagenT One of the ele teachers had hers under a pencil sharpener! AFL Gayle Who takes care of them in your schools, Lavonne and Lynda? Well, that's one way to catch the pencil trimmings, Ragen. :( LavonneS We had them in a lab and one in spec ed classrooms but increasing enrollment LyndaG4 Ours are currently maintained by the teacher in the lab/classroom, but are LavonneS made us utilize the space for another classroom LyndaG4 trying to establish a new non-teaching position to supervise all computers RagenT Graphite will destroy a read write head! It creates a new one! LavonneS Each teacher is responsible, but the buildings have a resource teacher who LavonneS takes responsibility, there is a district wide person who can be called in AFL Gayle And you're not even there now to warn people like that, Ragen. :( RagenT Boo hoo:( AFA Bard Our district just did that, Lynda - it's only non-teaching from the aspect that we schedule LyndaG4 We had an issue with chalkdust as well - but installing dealer suggested AFA Bard classes. It's an administrative position, too. Good for the wallet. :) LavonneS Ragen, what are you doing now?? LyndaG4 removing the chalkboard and using marker board AFA Bard trashbags also work wonders. :) AFL Gayle Yes. I've fought with teachers over chalk dust, too. RagenT Recovering from a failed interview and the flu. Tutor tech, counting recipts LyndaG4 Comes full circle to the issue of teacher knowledge RagenT computers and unemployment lines. I'm also a mom for a 2 1/2 year old. AFA Bard Got any great tutor tech stacks to upload to our library, Ragen?? :)) Having a 2 1/2 yr old IS a job! AFL Gayle She's working on Red Pony, Part 2, Bard. AFA Bard Awesome! RagenT I'm working on chapter II the Red Pony, now that I feel better. [[ Ragen ]] Glad you're feeling better! We'll be looking for Part 2! RagenT Thanks. LyndaG4 Thanks for the chat - need to learn how to download at beginners conference AFL Gayle You'll get LOTS of help there, Lynda. :) Thanks for coming. RagenT It was great talking with you Lynda! AFA Bard Visit the Beginner's Forum, Lynda, in the AOL Free area for instructions. ;) Just "buzz" if you need more help! AFL Gayle Our topic next week is Teacher Utility Software. GerryR5 Nice to see you Lynda!! Come back again soon! :) AFL Gayle The AppleWorks Chat also begins at 9 pm. Keyword AAW AFA Bard Workin' the 11:00 pm shift at CNN tonite so I've gotta run. It was GREAT to see you folks tonite! ** Pray for Peace! ** AFL Gayle Be sure and check out our New Files Library. Bard has been busily releasing New Files. :) BCS Frank Amen, Bard AFL Gayle Bye, Bard. :) LavonneS Goodnight folks RagenT I noticed an article on America On line in the Sun. paper and the IRAQ file. BCS Frank Night, Lavonne AFL Gayle Good night, Lavonne! Thanks for coming. :) AFL Gayle You did, Ragen? What did it say? RagenT It mentioned Prodigy, Genie, AO and Compuserve are on the ball with the news on RagenT Iraq. RagenT They don't depend on "their" own reporters for up to the minute news. GerryR5 Yes, we HAVE really been up to the minute..:) RagenT That is the reason for their acuracy and speed. BCS Frank In that sence we have the biggest network... RagenT There was also mention that many people use it as a sorce. BCS Frank includes CNN, CBS, BBC, etc. RagenT Who enters all the information? RagenT And from where? GerryR5 WE also provided a great support group Wed night when the news broke.. AFL Gayle Wire service reports, I think, Ragen. RagenT I couldn't believe the non ending news coverage, it acutally gave me an anxiety BCS Frank In the lobby and other pc groups lots of folks pooled reports. RagenT attack. To much stimulation, I guess. BCS Frank The IRAQ reports are wire service. BCS Frank Night all... have to move on.... RagenT Yes, I can see that it would be good to have someone to talk to about it. AFL Gayle Thanks for coming, Frank. :) RagenT Me too, Nice talking to you all. as always:)