1/7/91 8:01:15 PM Opening "CHAT010690" for recording. AFA Bard AFL Gayle MaryEz SINGL BELL BCS Frank Negotiator LavonneS TEACHER ms RagenT IES Coord DougB5 AFP TimB Prof ROOT AFC Tooter AFL Gayle : Well, I guess we'll get started. Our topic tonight is software for language arts and reading. (While I'm talking, you can check out the HotShot to see what other conferences we have this week.) MaryEz : Gayle, I am not a reading teacher but a computer facilitator. I have a non-computer literate reading teacher who has been told by the principal to get her kids into the lab. What do you suggest? BCS Frank : What grade level, subjects? AFL Gayle : Good questions, Frank. :) Thanks. SINGL BELL: What type of reading program do you have? MaryEz : 6th grade reading MaryEz : I don't know what series they use. SINGL BELL: Do you have a basal? AFL Gayle : Do you know what is available at your school? I.E. in terms of software SINGL BELL: Why not write to read and read to write? AFL Gayle : Who makes those programs, Fran? MaryEz : Not too much reading. We do have a MECC license Write to read is by IBM for little kids in 1st & 2nd I believe. SINGL BELL: Types of programs are word processing programs and dtp AFA Bard : I see what Fran means... give then a computer assignment based on something they've read... SINGL BELL: No, I mean she should have the kids read literature on their grade level and then write about it. SINGL BELL: There are great pieces available from Scholastic MaryEz : I can't tell this teacher how to teach reading!!! If you get what I mean. She just wants to get the MaryEz : whole thing over with. AFA Bard : Does your district have access to MECC, Mary? MaryEz : Yes SINGL BELL: I'll come and model it for her BCS Frank : Hmmm... sounds like a job for Appleworks, and maybe StoryWorks. SINGL BELL: Super Story Tree, Children's Writing and Publishing Center SINGL BELL: Slide Shop AFA Bard : Hmm..yeah Frank!! why not give them some AW templates to play with? SINGL BELL: Super Print MaryEz : She has already told me she is teaching reading, not writing!! I hope she retires soon}:>!! BCS Frank : What computers have you got in your lab? AFL Gayle : All great suggestions if they are available. What word processor do you have, Mary? AFA Bard : You know... a sample paragraph to edit, a story starter, etc... BCS Frank : GEt something so they can take their work home "in print." AFA Bard : MECC's got some other LA stuff too.. try Word Munchers if you think they'd be more comfortable with a game-format. AFL Gayle : Why is that, Fran? SINGL BELL: No, what's the point of word munchers? SINGL BELL: Because Mecc doesn't get the creative kid MaryEz : Just practicing phonics. SINGL BELL: Mecc is more like electronic workbooks. BCS Frank : For "non-writing" reading Storyworks works very well... you can insert all sorts of questions, and "twistaplot" type brances SINGL BELL: Hey, I have a great idea! Why not telecommunications? BCS Frank : to provide pin-point help. MaryEz : I don't agree Singl Bell. They have come out with some new GS specific software that is excellent AFL Gayle : Great idea, Fran. Why not get her involved in the ScrapBook Project, Mary? SINGL BELL: Don't have GS lab:( AFA Bard : Word Munchers, Mary, helps kids work on distinguishing vowel sounds and targeting words. It's rated about 2-6 though. BCS Frank : You want to expose helpless little children to the likes of TimB?!? MaryEz : Because she won't write to read, writing is the English teacher's job, she says. AFL Gayle : Word Munchers was VERY popular in my Chapter 1 classrooms about grades 5-8. SINGL BELL: Bard, they would be better off writing and sharing then figuring out what the phonics were. AFA Bard : How about having student create a template with questions to ask each other.. like an interview.. then have them switch computers and type in their answers?. BCS Frank : It's very very hard for a computer to teach in spite of the teacher. :( SINGL BELL: The kids love it here also, But I will only give it when I don't feel like doing much work;) AFL Gayle : Don't know whether you have them available in your school or not, Mary, but the DLM Arcademic Skill Builders in Language Arts series is quite popular with my middle grade teachers and kids, too. BCS Frank : Any way you could get this teacher online, say next Sunday night? :) AFL Gayle : Easy for the teacher to use, too. (I've used it with reluctant ones.) She might say that's language arts and not strictly reading, though. MaryEz : No way!! Frank, she is tough!! AFA Bard : Mindplay also has a great series called "ACE Explorer, Ace Dective, Ace Reporter".. they're terrific "write in context" programs. They're only about $40.00 each, too! :) AFA Bard : Welcome ROOT!! AFL Gayle : The Twistaplot stories are GREAT for reading! MaryEz : Yes, Bard. SINGL BELL: How about Where in the World? That's reading and using ref stuff LavonneS : If a teacher isn't creative enough to see use of computer then maybe some other SINGL BELL: (Can you retire her?) LavonneS : teachers could make better use of the hardware BCS Frank : The Pixelworks/Bank Street "StoryBook, runs on 64K Apples, prints in color; might be worth looking at. MaryEz : I thought she might go this year, they offered a retirement package but she didn't take it:( AFA Bard : Great idea Frank! That's good stuff. Of course you could ALWAYS check out our A2 LA library for some quality public domain stuff. ;)) AFL Gayle : Have you got enough now to get her started, Mary? RagenT : Reading software specific is kind of a weak area in the software area. MaryEz : I thank you for all your suggestions but I have tried all of them except the Microzines. RagenT : That's why I am trying to make reading software with Tutor Tech... SINGL BELL: Even Carmen? MaryEz : Maybe they would do it. AFL Gayle : Right, Ragen. Most of the strictly reading titles I can think of are primary.The kids will love it, Mary, if you can get the teacher in there. My junior high reading students fight over the issues of Microzine. BCS Frank : Is it the reticent teacher that's the problem? Give here PS/2. :) SINGL BELL: Shoot her AFA Bard : LOL!! MaryEz : I have all the Microzines from the beginning. I was a classroom consultant for them for a while. AFA Bard : Sounds like she could use a zip chip! :) AFL Gayle : I'd like to throw out a question that I encountered on a local BBS this past LavonneS : Is Microzine appropriate for upper elem? AFL Gayle : week. It actually came from a university professor who is linked to FrEdMail MaryEz : She is a negative person to begin with. I think that's why the principal sent her to me>}:> BCS Frank : Give this teacher a copy of this log. AFL Gayle : by his university computer. He stated that he didn't think we should use word AFA Bard : (Sure, Lavonne.. there tends to be activities for elem. all the way through high school.) AFL Gayle : processing packages in the schools because students are no longer learning to spell because of word processing. Any comments? MaryEz : Wrong!!!! LavonneS : He is off base!!! BCS Frank : Sure... that depends on how the teacher uses the WP. AFL Gayle : Yes, Lavonne. Microzine is about grades 4-5 up. SINGL BELL: Who cares about spelling, Isn't it the reactions and thoughts that count? RagenT : Yes! I have a comment! I can make individualized spelling lists from kids word processing. MaryEz : They are using spell checkers yes but they are remembering the words after they use the checker. BCS Frank : If he uses AW 3.0 he can block out the spell checker suggestions, SINGL BELL: Mini lessons in spelling BCS Frank : and geberate lists of words they miss at the same time. AFL Gayle : OK. Another related question that came up in a discussion with some of the AFA Bard : A WP is just a tool, like a pencil it can be misused. Denying students the use of spell checkers is a bit like ripping off their erasers. ;)) SINGL BELL: Is writing a process or a skill, I would ask him? AFL Gayle : faculty at school. Our state dept. is recommending phasing at "spelling" as a RagenT : Magic Slate II spell check keeps a list of their misspelled words. BCS Frank : AFL Gayle : subject altogether. The teachers say the spelling books just repeat the skills taught in the reading series and the language arts books. Others say spelling should be relevant words. Any comments? Should we do away with spelling? AFA Bard : Great point, Fran. The trick is to have them keep a "personal spelling" list of the tough words. AFL Gayle : (That's another teacher who should have been shot, Frank. ;) SINGL BELL: Yes, as a subject LavonneS : I use word processing and make individualized spelling lists from it. Magic Slate BCS Frank : Sure, when we do away with writing and reading. AFA Bard : Whole Language folks would agree. Spelling can be taught in context. RagenT : I agree Bard. BCS Frank : MaryEz : Yes and multiplication tables too!!:) AFL Gayle : So Fran, is writing a process or a skill? SINGL BELL: No, you don't do away with reading and writing. SINGL BELL: Absolutely LavonneS : Magic Slate requires student to retype word to insert it after spell checking SINGL BELL: Process AFA Bard : Here, here, Mary!! SINGL BELL: Not fill in the blanks SINGL BELL: Not spelling RagenT : I use Magic Slate with the students too, I like the spell checker for that SINGL BELL: Not a spewing of lessons RagenT : reason. The students have to spell misspelled words and it keeps track. SINGL BELL: Spelling is practice in context LavonneS : Then I use the spelling list generated from their writing and put it into Mecc MaryEz : There are some people who will never learn to spell but they are usually very creative in their ideas. LavonneS : Spelling Series AFL Gayle : So do you use a traditional "learn these 20 spelling words from the book" per week, too, Lavonne? BCS Frank : Single, you're saying that spelling should be taught, but well. LavonneS : Those people who will "never" learn to spell need the spell checker as a tool AFL Gayle : So are we saying we should teach spelling just in context or should we still BCS Frank : Most people can learn to spell, and need to learn to spell. AFA Bard : Hi, Tim. We're in a hot and heavy discussion about the teaching of spelling and how software fits in! LavonneS : No not 20 a week. I let them contract which words they are using a lot but AFL Gayle : use the traditional speller with the prescribed words for the week to learn? LavonneS : misspelling and would like to learn to spell better MaryEz : Right!! Another great thing about some spell checkers is a word counter. This encourages use of SINGL BELL: I had a kid thank me for showing him the spell checker. It relaxed him so he could write AFA Bard : Yes, Mary! MECC's Ghost Writer will do that nicely. MaryEz : a thesaurus when students see how many times they use a particular word. AFL Gayle : Great suggestion, Mary! SINGL BELL: I told them starting a sentence with Then, or And was a computer virus MaryEz : and I don't even have to tell them. They discover it for themselves!!!! BCS Frank : That I like. AFA Bard : LOL, Fran! SINGL BELL: and I would disinfect them. AFL Gayle : Teaches computer literacy terms AND language arts skills at the same time. :) AFA Bard : Here's a neat idea I saw at a recent conference... have students take a short essay and use the word processor to place one sentence on each line. Then, cut the sentences apart into strips, put them into an envelope and have another group try to resequence them. If they're successful - the author's original writing flowed clearly. Neat, huh? AFL Gayle : What grade do you work with, Fran? SINGL BELL: Good. Can I steal that? Where did the essay come from? LavonneS : Neat, Mary try that one out on your teacher SINGL BELL: K-5 ESL and Special Ed MaryEz : Yes, that sounds good!:) AFL Gayle : Good idea, Bard. And uses the computer AND hands on exercises, too. RagenT : Bard, that is a good skill for sequencing too. BCS Frank : Try that out on an "educational research report." :) AFA Bard : Steal away, Fran. You can use ANY essay, I like to use a students (with permission, of course!) AFA Bard : LOL Frank... NOONE could put that back together! BCS Frank : ... publish and perish, all at once. As long as Jim is here, StoryWorks is great for sequencing, too. AFL Gayle : Jim, would you like to tell us briefly about StoryWorks? We mentioned it in passing a little earlier. LavonneS : After they have done the strips cut, they could learn to use WP cut and paste SINGL BELL: Storyworks works with AW? MaryEz : Gayle, are you logging this? I forgot to!!Welcome Tooter BCS Frank : And the StoryWorks 30 Col display is VERY clear for young readers. TIIE Jim : StoryWorks lets teachers and students create hypertext software using... AFL Gayle : For those who don't know Jim, he's Teachers' Idea & Information Exchange, TIIE Jim : the AppleWork Word processor. AFL Gayle : which makes disks with educational AppleWorks files and StoryWorks. Find his message board in our Special Interest Groups. :) TIIE Jim : Ok... real quickly. AFP TimB : LOL! TIIE Jim : First the nitty-gritty... StoryWorks sells for $49.95 and is available. directly from TI&IE, P.O. Box 6229, Lincoln 68506 (402)-483-6987 It is being used a lot by teachers creating interactive fiction with ... TIIE Jim : classes and for all kinds of other applications... from expert systems to.. quizzes, games, etc. Users create stacks with the AW word processor and these are read with .StoryWorks... which activitates segment transfers, adds sound and scoring...we've recently released version 1.1 which allows for the weighting of scores... and numerous other improvements over version 1.0. SINGL BELL: Does it work with 3.0 TIIE Jim : It works with all versions of Classic AW TIIE Jim : Another big use is to use it to create timelines. BCS Frank : What's your upgrade policy & procedure. SINGL BELL: I have been very intrigued by StoryWorks since it came out TIIE Jim : Upgrade costs $10.00 if you purchased the program before July 1, 1990. AFC Tooter: Upgarde policy??? It's one of the great bargains in software around! TIIE Jim : Return original disk and $10.00 for upgrade. TIIE Jim : If you purchased it after July 1, 1990 the upgrade is FREE. RBDi : I would like to get in touch with someone at Light Source. Does anyone here know how? AFL Gayle : Any other questions for Jim? AFL Gayle : We have some StoryWorks stacks in our libraries that you can look at with SINGL BELL: Have any samples? AFL Gayle : AppleWorks to see somewhat how the programming is done. They are MUCH more TIIE Jim : Sample stacks available online. AFL Gayle : exciting with StoryWorks, though. It's a steal at $49.95! TIIE Jim : The program also comes with a limited site license allowing teachers to make up to 35 copies for use in a SINGLE classroom or lab, building and ... district licenses are also available. MaryEz : Is it networkable? TIIE Jim : Yes AFL Gayle : There are new stacks on each issue of the TIIE Disk that comes out monthly. BCS Frank : I HIGHLY recommend StoryWorks! RagenT : I know our friend Midge does too. TIIE Jim : Thanks Frank... I've got to run, any other questions. MaryEz : Can 5th and 6th graders use it easily? LavonneS : TIIE Lincoln, Neb?? AFA Bard : Jim, is there an additional charge to use on a network? AFL Gayle : Right, Lavonne. SINGL BELL: Whole Language folks would love this AFL Gayle : Yes, Mary. Any child who can read at the reading level of the stack can use TIIE Jim : Bard, it depends upon your individual situation, it would be best if you gave me a call... (402)-483-6987. AFA Bard : Will do, Jim! AFL Gayle : it, so even as young as 2nd graders, if the stack is at their reading level. MaryEz : I mean to create their own stacks!! BCS Frank : Phonetic Types can get a lot of milage out of StoryWorks as well. AFL Gayle : Post any more questions you have for Jim in his message board here in AED. Under Special Interest Groups, AppleWorks in Education. OK. Since we're talking about language arts, which, of course, includes writing, AFC Tooter is going to take a few minutes to tell us about ScrapBook USA. This in an America Online exclusive project. :) AFC Tooter: Actually, I have a bunch of leftover macros from my chat last week. If I can push the right button I'll get a description of the project for you. ScrapBookUSA is a project which links students in classes from all over the country toward the writing and exchange of descriptive essays about where they live. The ScrapBook essay topic can be adapted in many ways to suit the needs of most curriculum areas. However, the aim of all ScrapBk essays should be VIVID DESCRIPTIVE WRITING about a SINGLE PLACE, OBJECT, PERSON, TRADITION, or EXPERIENCE that is important to the writer. One special value of this project is that it gives writers a REAL audience for their writing. To help make the project run smoothly, we have prepared lessons and guides which teachers have found useful in motivating their students toward good writing and a successful exchange. In the first year of the project students wrote aboutshopping malls and tree-tops, bazaars & country fairs, historic monuments and a spot in the bottom of one girl's closet, Lake Michigan scenery & New England dirt roads,gang wars & special friendships; one citizen of the world wrote about his place in the universe. Teachers in specialized areas have also found interesting ways of focussing the topic on concerns of their particular curriculums. AFA Bard : (YES! TOOT's new MACROS are working!!!) AFC Tooter: Did they say anything? Forgot to read them. AFC Tooter: We are aiming to begin this months exchange RagenT : Yes, they did Toot. AFL Gayle : OK. TooT's project can also be found under our Special Interest Groups menu. Look under The Education Connection. :) AFC Tooter: with exchange of Hello letters on the 14th. We're still ready to add any interested schools and I'll MaryEz : We're ready, TooT!! AFC Tooter: answer all questions. SINGL BELL: Tooter, do you upload and download during Prime time? AFL Gayle : TooT, tell them about the new uploads in the library, please. AFC Tooter: If anyone here wants more info, let me know and I' AFC Tooter: I'll send out my six part description of the project. AFA Bard : Also check the NEW FILES library for some really interesting files. There's a great calendar spread sheet there. AFC Tooter: Be ready for heavy downloads (LOADS!!) though. AFP TimB : Prime Time is pretty cheap on AOL (Blatant Ad) AFP TimB : :) BCS Frank : Toot's six parter is a real gem of a project handbook. AFA Bard : And NO COMMERCIAL interruptions either, Tim. :))) BCS Frank : "9 out of 11 AFP's recommend...... " AFC Tooter: Gayle suggests I tell you all that there is a RagenT : Thank goodness I had a free hour to use to download it all! AFC Tooter: compliation of ScrapBook favorites chosen by kids, teachers And others that is available in the AFC Tooter: non-searchable ScrapBook library. AFL Gayle : (Uh, Frank, there IS only ONE AFP. :) AFC Tooter: It includes the Scraps and comments that were posted on the boards while the projewct was running. SINGL BELL: What is an AFP? AFA Bard : Awesome Friendly Person. :) AFC Tooter: not really an hour, was it Ragen? AFL Gayle : AFP=Apple Forum Producer, Fran. AFC Tooter: And worth every minute too! RagenT : Nah, only 40 minutes... AFL Gayle : (Tranlation, Boss of the AFLs. ;) SINGL BELL: Thanks again. AFP TimB : Bard has it right! :) MaryEz : I can't imagine being the boss of the AFLs}:> RagenT : It may have taken less time since I was reading other mail too. AFA Bard : Good luck with your "problem teacher" Mary! Let us know how it comes out! AFL Gayle : Our topic next week is the Interactive Education Service. Please come to findScreen Name: IES Coord out what services Mark Hulme and his hard working teaching staff offer here online. MaryEz : Gayle, are we any nearer to getting PO's from AOL? AFP TimB : This is where *I* leave. ;) AFP TimB : Before I get attacked. AFL Gayle : Tom, the Forum Producer for TIN, is hard at work on it, Mary. AFL Gayle : He says we're getting closer to it. MaryEz : Or at least a bank!! BCS Frank : Good luck, Tim :) LavonneS : If they get POs I think they will see LOTS of activity from more schools AFA Bard : I agree, Lavonne! BCS Frank : Akkk!! it's Oli time... have to run! SINGL BELL: I will recommend. AFL Gayle : We all know that, Lavonne. Tom is working hard writing reports trying to BCS Frank : Night all! AFL Gayle : convince his bosses. SINGL BELL: Oli time? AFC Tooter: ditto to Bard's comment. AFA Bard: GÕnight all! Have a GREAT week! ********* Closing LOG of 01/06/90 AED Chat ******** (edited by AFA Bard)