8/30/92 8:02:16 PM Opening "CHAT0830" for recording. AFL Gayle : Our topic is planning staff development for new computer users. What should all MaryEz : As much as possible an inservice must be hands-on. Negotiator : Any followup planned for your inservice, Mary? Too often inservices are one shot deals. AFL Gayle : users know how to do? (besides log on to AOL, of course. :) Negotiator : Any followup planned for your inservice, Mary? Too often inservices are one shot deals. AFL Gayle : users know how to do? (besides log on to AOL, of course. :) AFL Gayle : What software is a "must see" for new teachers? DCBrower : How do you handle the inevitable brand loyalty traps? AFL Gayle : As usual, we have one free hour to give away to the lucky person who says the MaryEz : Yes, Bob, 3 more throughout the year just on AOL and ScrapBookUSA. AFL Gayle : secret word. The word must be said in context and you must stay until the end AFA Bard : Now -- Bob hit on THE question!!!!! Negotiator : Good, Mary AFA Bard : Uhm... not bob, DC! AFL Gayle : of the chat to be eligible. Since it's the end of the month, we might even have AFL Gayle : an extra hour or two. :) MaryEz : Why shouldn't you be loyal to brands, DC? AFL Gayle : Brand loyalty traps? Explain, please, DC? DCBrower : User A says "Apple IIs are awful" User B says "PCs are awful", But no one talks DCBrower : about software for those machines! DCBrower : The brands get all the attention, not the software or applications DCBrower : so that's a trap MaryEz : If you are doing an inservice chances are that the school already has the computers so you would know MaryEz : what you are dealing with. Negotiator : Software needs dictate hardware purchases. Thank goodness Mac and PC both now can use MicroSoft Negotiator : products MaryEz : Therefore you would go with software for that platform. DCBrower : I suggest demonstrating equivalent software on competing machines, so get over AFL Gayle : That's the object of this chat, DC. To discuss what software should be taught AFL Gayle : if you have Apple //s. MaryEz : In most cases platform dictates software and budget dictate all of the above. AFA Bard : That's the way I usually deal with it -- emphasize that software is the key. In a head to head, the Negotiator : I think brand preference is related to learning style. I think pictorially. That is why I like the Negotiator : Mac DCBrower : Good point AFA Bard : A2 still blows away the messy-DOS machines - the Mac does even better. When users are given a CHOICE AFA Bard : and they know about the platforms & software - they usually choose Apple. :) AFC Oli : (Kid problems; gotta run) DCBrower : Bye DCBrower : I agree with the preference of Apple II software for people who know many dif- DCBrower : ferent systems AFA Bard : Herein lies the BIG philosophical question for staff development.... DCBrower : Of course, the machine is just a tool -- desktop publishing is still best on Ma AFA Bard : should be be teaching LITERACY anymore? DCBrower : No MaryEz : I think workshops etc. should deal with one piece of software at a time with lots of hands on. MaryEz : No to the literacy. AFL Gayle : Depends upon how you define literacy, Bard. MaryEz : True. AFL Gayle : If literacy is being able to operate the machine to do what you want it to do, AFL Gayle : yes. AFA Bard : Literacy as in "this is a disk, name the parts of the computer, the first computer was Eniac, etc.." AFL Gayle : If literacy is defined as programming, no, in most instances. Negotiator : We should teach the use of the computer as a problem solving tool MaryEz : Does anyone teach programming anymore. AFL Gayle : I think they ought to be able to name the parts of the computer. A little Negotiator : Yes DCBrower : I want to... AFA Bard : We teach Pascal, Mary. AFL Gayle : history doesn't hurt, but the emphasis should be on tools (software) to USE MaryEz : At high school, though, right? AFL Gayle : the computer. AFA Bard : And our 7th graders use LogoWriter & LegoLogo. Pascal in 8, 10, 12 grades (elective or advanced AFA Bard : placement) AFL Gayle : Do you call LogoWriter programming, Mary? Many teach that, even at the elem. AFL Gayle : level. Negotiator : Programming and spreadsheets - at H.S.; Word Processing to all at Middle School DCBrower : I would AFA Bard : I do, Gayle,but not to the kids. :) It has all the elements of a high-level programming language : MaryEz : We do Logo, too. But years ago I had to teach basic even in the elementary school. AFL Gayle : Where would you put databases? AFA Bard : structure, operational languages & lots of funny words. AFA Bard : Applications, Gayle. DCBrower : For teacher inservice, how about an introduction to America Online? AFA Bard : Here, Here! MaryEz : Excellent! AFL Gayle : Great idea, DC! :) MaryEz : And along with it word processing and text files. AFA Bard : Of course, then your budget will have to increase 100%! DCBrower : Yes AFA Bard : And teacher productivity tools -- gradebooks, etc. AFL Gayle : Let's say you have a group of brand new teachers. They didn't learn about AFL Gayle : computers in college (as they should now.) AFL Gayle : What would you teach them and why? MaryEz : That's wishful thinking, Gayle!!!;) AFL Gayle : Let's make it a group of elementary and middle school teachers. AFA Bard : Personal productivity first -- gotta hook the fish before you can reel him/her in. :) AFL Gayle : What, the college part, Mary? DCBrower : If they're science teachers, then they need to know about lab data acquisition AFL Gayle : They learn about it here at UNC-W. MaryEz : Students use computers at school, but in our teacher prep courses they are not taught about MaryEz : using them as a teaching tool. AFL Gayle : OK, Bard. What would you include in personal productivity? (besides Print AFL Gayle : Shop? ;)) MaryEz : AWKS or MSWorks. DCBrower : Actually, Print Shop is a great thing to show a new teacher AFA Bard : gradebooks, word processing, graphic production & how to do a simple newsletter. MaryEz : Dazzle Draw or MacPaint DCBrower : I'd keep it simple -- here's a way to make certificates for your class AFL Gayle : What about if these teachers can't type? Should we emphasize keyboarding AFL Gayle : skills? MaryEz : Our teachers love Dazzle Draw to learn mouse control. Negotiator : Spreadsheets, useful desk accessories like a spooler, pasting paint program output into a word Negotiator : processing file AFA Bard : Nope, Gayle.. but we need to show them that we have programs that will help them teach themselves the AFA Bard : skills they need. DCBrower : You gotta know how to type, Gayle, so yes DCBrower : It is boring, though, for an inservice MaryEz : In my opinion it's the typing that causes the problem with computer phobia. AFL Gayle : Should the object of our inservice be to teach the teachers how to use the AFL Gayle : computer for themselves or with their students? DCBrower : Teachers first MaryEz : both AFA Bard : Exactly, DC. I also agree with you, Mary - except that many kids do just fine if they don't know the AFL Gayle : Why do you say that, Mary? Negotiator : You must know how to use the computer well yourself first AFA Bard : whole keyboard - at least initially. MaryEz : By having the teachers in the computer lab with their kids, the demand for computer inservice Negotiator : Give the teachers computers to take home - maybe buy a couple of laptops MaryEz : for teachers has risen. DCBrower : What are some things that a computer that just CAN'T be done any other way? DCBrower : There's the motivation for learning about computers AFA Bard : DC- complex simulations, managing large text/video information resources, heavy number crunching, etc. AFL Gayle : DC, communicating with lots of teachers as you can in telecomm can't be done Negotiator : Elaborate data analysis like curve fitting- regression is simply to hard by hand MaryEz : Communication, email around the world, in seconds. AFL Gayle : easily without a computer. DCBrower : Yes to all that AFA Bard : Good points! Negotiator : salary matrix for negotiations MaryEz : Conferences around the country all at once with as many as possible. Like right now!!! AFA Bard : AND be able to read the log tomorrow! Negotiator : hypercard stacks - with editing of pictures MaryEz : Bob, one would think you were a math teacher. @;-> Negotiator : occassionally AFA Bard : So.. how much staff development for teachers is enough? MaryEz : Never enough! Negotiator : Depends on interest of the individual MaryEz : This summer we had a week of exploration by teachers just of all the MECC software we have AFA Bard : Bob.. so you should start with some kind of survey to find out the needs? MaryEz : copied and rarely used because nobody ever had time to look at it during the school year. DCBrower : I think you just have to start doing neat stuff with your computer and get AFA Bard : GREAT idea, Mary! Did you tie it to specific curriculum areas? MaryEz : Teachers were delighted just to be able to play. Negotiator : yes, and have a core leadership group with your computer intereseted teachers DCBrower : others to ask you to show them MaryEz : One topic a day. MaryEz : Friday was free for all. AFA Bard : Good idea, Bob - "teachers as trainers" model. MaryEz : We ended with a covered dish luncheon. Everyone was very pleased. AFL Gayle : What topics, Mary? DCBrower : Sounds like fun -- just getting in there and using it is great Negotiator : Our strength is that we have 4 or 5 teachers (look Tooter) who like for the new stuff and tell others AFL Gayle : Toot's ALWAYS got some new computer toy! :)) AFA Bard : How important is it to teach the MANAGEMENT of technology as well as the how-tos of software? MaryEz : Monday - Social studies and Science Tues. Math Wed - DTP and Language arts Thurs - Word Proc. AFA Bard : Is "knowing the software" enough to be able to effectively use a computer in your classroom with AFA Bard : 30 kids? Negotiator : I am not interested in teaching management about computers, they are my secret weapon in negotiations MaryEz : Each day I showed a different piece of hardware. Laser disk and CD Rom Overhead with LCD etc. DCBrower : Dazzling DCBrower : What do you mean by negotiations, Negotiator? AFL Gayle : As in raising his salary, DC. :) DCBrower : Ah... Negotiator : Teacher negotiations - I was being facecious AFL Gayle : Bob has fancy spreadsheets that do all of his "what if's" quickly for him when AFL Gayle : he's negotiating for new contracts. AFA Bard : So... how much staff development might the average teacher at YOUR school get in one year? (technology AFL Gayle : However, that IS a very concrete way to show other teachers how helpful AFA Bard : related) Negotiator : As a department chair I use spreadsheet graphics in my budgets to convey info quickly - as 3D graphs AFL Gayle : computers can be. :) DCBrower : Would you set up an inservice with an outside expert, or prefer in-house talent DCBrower : even if it was not as "expert" AFL Gayle : In-house, DC, or at least within the school district. Negotiator : We started with word processing training about 6 to 8 years ago. Almost every teacher k-12 has had Negotiator : training AFL Gayle : Do they all USE computers with their students, Bob? Negotiator : In house talent is cheaper and you have followups Negotiator : Students use computers regularly. We have a writing center (Tooter's), a math computing lab, Negotiator : we are building a math lab with computers, and have "floater" computers for classroooms Negotiator : Special ed has computers permanently in their rooms Negotiator : Typing/business has a PC LAN Negotiator : IA has Mac for desk top publishing and Sciences has one Mac for hypercard biology stuff Negotiator : We have a variety of hardware and software DCBrower : Just one computer here and there sounds like it could end up as a novelty... DCBrower : that happened at a school where I was once AFL Gayle : Re-Hi, Mary! :) AFL Gayle : Are computers used by everyone at your school, DC? MaryEz : Very weird things just went on with my IIsi. Negotiator : We found that the writing center was the most important student use of computers DCBrower : No -- there's a lot of uncertainty about computers here DCBrower : on the part of faculty, anyway AFL Gayle : Has there been inservice for the faculty, DC? AFL Gayle : Hi, TooT! :)) AFA Bard : It was once that way here, DC. -- until we reached a "critical interest level" among faculty. AFA Bard : Welcome Toot! DCBrower : I'm new, so can't say AFC Tooter : Hello all. Betterf late tha never!! Negotiator : If you need justifications for computers just read the widely accepted NCTM Math Standars - It is AFL Gayle : Has anyone asked you yet whether you know anything about computers? Negotiator : nationally accepted MaryEz : Hi, Tooter, great to see you!* AFC Tooter : :-) DCBrower : I'm going to let actions speak louder than words AFC Tooter : A silent fanfare LOL!! DCBrower : can you hear them on a GS? AFL Gayle : Good idea, DC. I was just curious, since you're in NC. :) DCBrower : I see you're in NC, too! Negotiator : Notice how Tooter arrives and chaos reigns AFL Gayle : Yes, DC! I heard all but the fireworks! AFC Tooter : Gee, a guy can't just sneak in quietly without causing a commotion! DCBrower : How do I get it work? AFL Gayle : TooT, want to help DC with that one? AFA Bard : You DO make an entrance, Toot! :) AFC Tooter : Sure. AFC Tooter : What kind of computer, DC? AFA Bard : LOL! DCBrower : ROM03 GS AFC Tooter : You'll need to start by downloading SoundMaster. Use keyword QuickFinder to do a library search for AFC Tooter : it. DCBrower : Ok AFC Tooter : It has directions that are pretty clear. Then, AFA Bard : Welcome to the AED chat, David! AFC Tooter : you can download the test sounds from the ScrapBook Library in the Electronic SchoolHouse AFC Tooter : (keyword ESH). Negotiator : Sounds take up a good deal of memory, DC AFC Tooter : After that, DC, send me e-mail if you still need help and I'll get back to you quickly. AFL Gayle : DC, do you have a hard drive? DCBrower : Thanks! DCBrower : Yes MaryEz : These are the ones I downloaded last Sunday. AFC Tooter : Oooops. Good question, Gayle! DavidW4206 : I am new to this entire experience of telecommunications. This looks like fun!!! MaryEz : Two, three, and four. DCBrower : It's a blast AFL Gayle : If you've used any CDAs, that's what SoundMaster is. AFC Tooter : Can you hear this, Mary AFL Gayle : Welcome, David! :) Negotiator : It is fun, David MaryEz : Yes! AFA Bard : A blast, David! AFC Tooter : That's the right name. Negotiator : Are you a teacher? DavidW4206 : So, what did I interupt? AFL Gayle : Yes. I heard that French fry. (both of them) AFC Tooter : I think I iterrupted it, David :-((( DCBrower : We were talking about inservice training, David AFL Gayle : Well, David, we WERE talking about staff development/inservice before TooT MaryEz : But this is much more fun!!! AFA Bard : LOL! AFL Gayle : arrived and started an impromptu lesson on sounds online. ;) AFC Tooter : Sorry :-((( AFA Bard : slap, slap, slap. :) AFL Gayle : No problem, TooT. DC learned from it. :) DavidW4206 : Ahhh, A thorn in the side of all techies. How do you bring 19th Century people into the 21st Century? AFC Tooter : I offer a humble *mooo* Negotiator : Tooter, you are a bit more random abstract tonight than ususual! DCBrower : David, these funny punctuations at the end of sentences are faces drawn sideway AFL Gayle : By inservice, we hope, David. DavidW4206 : I have that concept :) Thnks for the help DCBrower : Like this: :) is a smiley face... :( is a frowny face, etc AFA Bard : Question: How much staff development might the average teacher at YOUR school get in one year? AFL Gayle : Maybe TooT could tell you how he has done it in his school system. AFC Tooter : Done what? Lost the question, Gayle. AFL Gayle : (And else where. He's been evangelizing every where this summer.) AFA Bard : staff development, Toot AFL Gayle : Inservice/Staff development, TooT, about computers. AFC Tooter : LOL AFC Tooter : Oh. We are very primitive so the job has been teaching teachers to use AppleWorks. We start by DavidW4206 : At my school, it depends on the teacher. I have the opportunity to staff inservice on MACs Negotiator : Toot did you inhale, like Bill Clinton didn't AFC Tooter : giving them a program they will use for themselves. AFL Gayle : LOL, Bob!!! DavidW4206 : Tacoma is a large district with little tech $ :(( AFL Gayle : Welcome, Rod! :) AFA Bard : Bob!!! ROTFL! Good point, David! AFA Bard : Hiya ROd! AFL Gayle : David, we're familiar with that situation! AFL Gayle : In fact, earlier, we discussed that using local people was a lot less AFL Gayle : inexpensive. DavidW4206 : I work at a Magnet school that has a fair amount of Tech. Yet we only do so much AFL Gayle : Welcome, Cayee! DCBrower : the kids gotta do schoolwork sometime during the day... Cayee : hi AFA Bard : Hmmm... why is that, David? DavidW4206 : Even with our level of tech the staff does need to teach sometime:))) DCBrower : gee, when will that ever change? DavidW4206 : Not in my lifetime... AFL Gayle : Well, it's about time to close for this evening, and it's time to announce our DCBrower : Hope not in mine! AFA Bard : Not in anyone's lifetime... :) AFL Gayle : winners of our free hours! AFL Gayle : But, first, a commercial. :) AFC Tooter : *MadHen* for my son's chicken pox. AFL Gayle : Be SURE and attend our chat NEXT week when TooT will be sharing School to Negotiator : It's time for Gayle to ask for pledges like PBS MaryEz : *MadHen* yourself! AFL Gayle : School Projects with us! AFL Gayle : Now, for the free hours. AFL Gayle : Yes, hours are plural tonight. :) AFL Gayle : We have several extra, since we took a vacation at the beginning of the month, DavidW4206 : Do we need to collect receipts for free time, or do we send in an SASE? MaryEz : *MadHen* AFL Gayle : so to start your school year off right, we're awarding free hours tonight to AFC Tooter : *Fanfare* AFL Gayle : Negotiator, DCBrower, MaryEZ, AND DavidW4206! AFC Tooter : *fanfare* Negotiator : Wow..weeeeee!!!!!!!! MaryEz : *thefightgoeson* DCBrower : Wow! Thanks! A second time! AFA Bard : Way to go EVERYONE!,()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()() Congrats!!! AFL Gayle : Wrong name, Mary! DavidW4206 : WELL COLOR ME SURPRISED:::)))) Negotiator : Thank you, bless you, (I get emotional) AFL Gayle : DC, be sure and get your sounds by next week. I'm sure TooT will have some DCBrower : Well -- I'm gonna downloud some sounds... see you next week MaryEz : I guess you can tell that's my favorite. Thanks Gayle. DavidW4206 : Why thank you, that was soooo special:))) Negotiator : Don't mind them, DC, AFL Gayle : sounds to share. :) DCBrower : OK!! AFA Bard : Nite folks! 8/30/92 9:03:26 PM Closing Log file.