7/7/91 8:03:39 PM Opening "chat77" for Chat Log recording. AFA Bard : Apple // Education Forum Chat AFA Bard : July 7, 1991 -- 8:00 pm NelleBelle : Evening :) AFL Gayle : hi, Nelle AFL Gayle : Ack! I mean NelleBelle. :) NelleBelle : Starting to rain here :( NelleBelle : Nelle is fine :) AFA Bard : Welcome Nelle, BFrank! AFA Bard : Where is "here" Nelle? BCS Frank : Cool & cloudy here :) AFL Gayle : Tonight is an open forum. We'll talk about whatever you want to talk about, NelleBelle : Negaunee MI AFA Bard : Muggy here --> Atlanta NelleBelle : near Lake Superior BCS Frank : Hi, Nelle, Gayle, Bard :) AFL Gayle : prefereably related to education. :) NelleBelle : Was just in Atlanta a few weeks ago :) going to school AFL Gayle : Muggy here in Raleigh, NC, too. AFA Bard : Really, which school, Nelle? NelleBelle : IBM seminar on Novell, ICLAS K-12 networking. AFA Bard : Really.. I just finished the same class two weeks ago!! I wonder if we met? Mine was several days at AFA Bard : the IBM tower. NelleBelle : mine was a week at the Glenridge building? AFA Bard : Ah... you must be a VIP! :)) NelleBelle : LOL really? why? BCS Frank : Novell networking for Kindergarten? AFA Bard : Speaking of I*M... what effects (if any) will the recent IBM-Apple announcement have on education? AFA Bard : Frank? AFL Gayle : So will Novell work with Apples? AFA Bard : Apples will work with Novell. :) AFA Bard : Hiya [Gerry]! BCS Frank : Hi, Gerry :) AFL Gayle : How, Bard? What software? NelleBelle : I wonder if it will, nothing was said there, that was before the announcement. AFL Gayle : Hi, Gerry! :) IC Gerry : HI!!!!! From my deck in Minnesota..:) NelleBelle : Hi, Gerry BCS Frank : I think it'll be awhile before the agreement bears fruit... IC Gerry : what announcement? AFA Bard : Novell makes networks and network software, Gayle. They specialize in IBM networks, but sell many AFA Bard : products that will allow Mac and II interfaces into networks. IC Gerry : I have a friend here who is a Novell expert..:) AFL Gayle : I know, Bard. Which software? (products) NelleBelle : I found out how much I don't know about netware ;) BCS Frank : Announcement of Apple & IBM planning to share technology. AFA Bard : Kinda complex, huh Nelle? LOL! Gayle: ICLAS is IBM's "front end" management system. The software NelleBelle : Really Jerry? I just went to IBM's Novell class in Atlanta 2 weeks ago. AFA Bard : is (usually) proprietary, like Writing to Read or Writing to Write. NelleBelle : That's for sure!! AFA Bard : BFRank, do you think the "deal" was just to make MicroSoft sweat? BCS Frank : I think that was part of it. IC Gerry : <--loves seeing Frank on the hot seat..LOL!!!! BCS Frank : But the deal is by no means a done deal. AFL Gayle : So would Morgan Davis' software work in that setting, Bard? BCS Frank : So far all that has happened BCS Frank : is the signing of a letter of intent. BCS Frank : Then there will need to be contracts... BCS Frank : .... and after that the implementation which BCS Frank : may take years, and may BCS Frank : never produce anything at all. NelleBelle : Lots of free advertising for them :) AFA Bard : And MS stock went down. ;) And would we all like to be the proverbial "fly on the wall" when BLUE and AFA Bard : Apple meet again? AFA Bard : (I'll bet they threw food!) BCS Frank : And if they do generate a new line of products BCS Frank : and software, there's no guarentee that the market will BCS Frank : accept them. AFA Bard : True, Frank. How about the "multimedia" claim they made? BCS Frank : .... Apple stock went up, IBM stock went down. :) IC Gerry : I hear at least 5 years..and then only for workstations IC Gerry : and new computers...' BCS Frank : There may be an echange of easy access to existing filetypes BCS Frank : between the existing machines... RSN. :) BCS Frank : As to Multimedia... there is an attempt to NelleBelle : That would sure be nice. IC Gerry : doesn't that sort of leave out education with the budget problems we are all facing? BCS Frank : have a new "multimedia standard" machine... based BCS Frank : on Bill Gates' vision. IC Gerry : Yes, I needed that exchange this afternoon!!!! AFA Bard : A machine, Frank.. or just a standard? AFA Bard : Whatcha working on, Gerry? BCS Frank : But that vision may go the way of Beta video tapes, etc. BCS Frank : Well, the full vision would be a standard IC Gerry : several projects, Bard...between three computers... BCS Frank : that could only be met by a nerw generation BCS Frank : of machines. IC Gerry : naturally... BCS Frank : ^^ new generation ^^ AFA Bard : Where (if anywhere) does Jobs' NeXt computer fit in? BCS Frank : Jobs' NeXT is clearly ahead of the pack... BCS Frank : ... possibly too far ahead. AFA Bard : Gerry = Last Tuesday I trained teachers from 8-12 on MS Windows and from 1-4 on System 7 (Mac). Under AFA Bard : head-to-head comparisoin -- the users made their choice! System 7! ()()()! AFA Bard : I think so too, Frank. They're likely to get lost in the workstation shuffle - especially if IBM and IC Gerry : Of course, Bard..there is no question... AFA Bard : Apple get into "bed" together with the RISC chipsets. BCS Frank : His PostScript screen driver, massive memory access and high speed UNIX with BCS Frank : the NeXTstep interface is very attractive. IC Gerry : <--enjoys the way Bard's mind works..:) AFA Bard : Especially the memory access and UNIX. I think ths IBM/Apple deal and the references to AIX/UNIX were BCS Frank : NeXT is the "wave" of the future... but AFA Bard : aimed at Jobs and Next? BCS Frank : it's not clear who will be riding that wave in 5 years. IC Gerry : ONe of the major problems with MS DOs is that it doesn;'t automatically take advantage IC Gerry : of extra memory beyond 640K.. IC Gerry : that is where all sorts of problems enter in.. NelleBelle : That's for sure! IC Gerry : Apple has solved that. BCS Frank : The Apple/IBM letter is aimed at UNIX, not just NeXT but also Sun and Compaq. AFA Bard : Right, Gerry. Have you seen a NeXt machine? IC Gerry : I am fighting that as we type..:( BCS Frank : NeXT has solved that as well, Gerry. BCS Frank : By the way, the rumor for the next NeXT is that it'll AFL Gayle : Interesting happenings at the high school they are building in Durham. Someone BCS Frank : be a RISC based machine instead of 68xxx based..... AFL Gayle : bought IBMs for all of the teachers' desks. However, all of the software they NelleBelle : ugh! Tried to get the new PrintShop to run on the network, worked like a AFL Gayle : (teachers) requested was MAC software! BCS Frank : ... faster, but all the code will have to be recompiled. NelleBelle : charm except at the printstations, ran out of memory. AFA Bard : Really, Frank?!? Hadn't heard that one! Probably shaped like a mobius strip too! AFA Bard : LOL! Gayle!!! NelleBelle : LOL AFA Bard : You've got the network version of PS, nelle? BCS Frank : Hmmm... good communications in Durham.... NelleBelle : nope :> was just trying it with the non-network version..... had to dump it al NelleBelle : ll AFA Bard : Right, Nelle. One of the things Broderbund did was write a "network printer driver" that helps cure NelleBelle : I guess there is a network version coming out though, right? AFA Bard : the print error -among other things. The network version is already out and VERY reasonable! AFL Gayle : The ones in the know tried to tell them no IBMs, but they wouldn't listen, NelleBelle : really? Will have to check for it!! BCS Frank : Since you need a network license anyway you should get the network version. AFL Gayle : Frank. ;) At the last minute, they did sneak in a Mac lab that they all can AFL Gayle : fight over. ;) BCS Frank : AFA Bard : Anybody noticed that IBM's donating a LOT of machines to schools lately? AFL Gayle : Really, Bard? What models? AFA Bard : Meanwhile, Apple's cutting back. Three of my friends were laid off from Apple Atlanta. AFL Gayle : Hi, Oli! :) BCS Frank : PS/1's? AFA Bard : Mostly model 25's and 30's Gayle. AFA Bard : Welcome Oli!! BCS Frank : Hi, Oli :) AFL Oli : hi NelleBelle : They really are fighting for the Education $$$'s AFL Gayle : Ah, the "cheaper" ones. ;) AFL Oli : what education $$$? NelleBelle : LOL true!!! AFA Bard : Right, Gayle. :)) Oli -- any great RUMORS you can share? AFL Oli : we don't have any in this state right now. AFL Gayle : Good question, Oli. None here. AFL Gayle : Re-Hi, Gerry. AFA Bard : Rehi Gerry! AFL Oli : RUMORS? AFL Gayle : Comfortable node knock you off? ;) NelleBelle : are network was messed up for quite awhile and they have bent over backwords BCS Frank : The hope is that the schools have to take the fre computers now... IC Gerry : Groan..we were complinning about IBMs and memeory, right? :( NelleBelle : with all kinds of free goodies. BCS Frank : ... and will be set on IBM when the economy turns up. AFL Gayle : What? You mean you're using an IBM now, Gerry? AFA Bard : Right, Gerry. :) I hope they're wrong, Frank. It worked for Apple (in the beginning). IC Gerry : Yup...:( BCS Frank : The marketing idea is sound... AFA Bard : We still love you anyway, Gerry. :)) BCS Frank : ... but the technology... oh, well. IC Gerry : I hipe some friend is logging this and will send it to me tonight..hint hint BCS Frank : Gerry is a user for all seasons. :) AFA Bard : <-- lumberjack (logging) AFL Gayle : Stop by our New Files Library tomorrow, Gerry. :) AFL Gayle : Better yet, try our search for new files to find it. :) AFA Bard : Use search term LOG to find it. :) BTW.. what do ya'll think about the new library changes? AFA Bard : Do you like the new quickfind menus? Do you care that ForumLink is gone? AFL Gayle : So what kinds of goodies did IBM give you, Nelle? BCS Frank : Allow me to drop in a plug here... BCS chat will be on the IBM/Apple link BCS Frank : this Tuesday. AFL Gayle : She can also just search for file new in the last week, too, Bard. IC Gerry : I support all computers on line..some easier than others..:) NelleBelle : Network software, Mathtool kit, Science Lab Kit, the class in Atlanta and.... NelleBelle : supposedly more on the way. AFA Bard : Ditto, Gerry (even though I still bleed in six colors. :)) AFL Gayle : w AFL Gayle : Wow! You'd better check out some of those deals, Bard. :) AFA Bard : On IBM stuff? Hmmm... Apple's been nice to us lately, though, too. Freebies included free AFA Bard : System 7 training, some multimedia CD-ROM's and a couple of great videodiscs. :) AFL Oli : (AFK for a sec - gotta give the kids their medicine) NelleBelle : guess they all want whatever few $$$$'s are around. AFL Gayle : Hmmm... notice that stuff is all for Macs from Apple. BCS Frank : Apple does seem to push Macs. NelleBelle : Slightly. AFA Bard : Slightly. AFA Bard : GMTA Belle! NelleBelle : LOL AFA Bard : LOL AFA Bard : (this is weird!) BCS Frank : But the new poster and booklet featuring the IIgs with the IIe and LC NelleBelle : Our middle school has IIe's & IIgs's, but the High School is IBM. BCS Frank : is a step in the right (our) direction. AFA Bard : Really, Frank? Haven't seen it. AFL Gayle : Have you seen the poster, Frank? I' AFL Gayle : I've just heard it rumored in ATB. BCS Frank : Shows all three but features the gs. AFL Gayle : (But then our dealers always thought Mac was the only Apple computer. :( AFA Bard : <-- haven't seen poster IC Gerry : Bard, how do you get those freebies? Your sparkling personality? :) BCS Frank : Jane Lee handed out the posters and booklets at NAUGC. AFL Gayle : Ah. AFL Gayle : I think it's his $$$, Gerry. ;) BCS Frank : They're going to Apple Ed reps.... at least it's a start. AFL Gayle : Or more precisely, his school system's. ;) AFA Bard : :)) That, and teaching a few courses for them. Truthfully, our district is in a buying cycle - IC Gerry : Bard you bribe Apple with money?:) AFA Bard : somehow we've got money in this recession. :) Just hope it holds out. :) AFL Gayle : Apple Ed Rep? Interesting concept, since they made one at our local dealer an AFL Gayle : Ed. Rep. Not even a // anywhere in the store. AFL Gayle : You're lucky, Bard. Spend it while you've got it! AFA Bard : Welcome Crazy! BCS Frank : Not a dealer ed rep, but the ed reps that work for Apple directly. AFL Gayle : Welcome, Crazy! :) BCS Frank : And they have a long way to go. AFA Bard : You mean AESC's? Crazy110 : Hi! AFL Gayle : Oh, I see, Frank. Those fewer and far between people. AFA Bard : Apple Education Sales Consultants = AESC's? BCS Frank : We've been asking for these to get wider distribution.... AFA Bard : We have ONE for the entire state of Georgia. (We had 4 before the latest layoffs). :( BCS Frank : .... All Apple dealers and user groups. AFA Bard : Frank -- do you think Apple's reliance on usergroups to promote the Apple computer clubs was AFA Bard : a wise one? NelleBelle : Ugh! Weather getting worse here :( later! BCS Frank : Well, they haven't fully supported that IMHO. BCS Frank : I'd like to see more or less direct and regular training from Apple Inc BCS Frank : to those user groups that take on service obligations. BCS Frank : But I think that day is coming. IC Gerry : I don't think anyone in MInnesotra has heard of Apple Computer clubs.. AFA Bard : I agree, Frank. How can we "impress" that upon Apple? We have a large local group - the AAAUG - now BCS Frank : Certainly there have been gaps in dealer based service for Apple II's. AFL Gayle : Huh? Don't you have a local club, Gerry? AFA Bard : over 300 members. Maybe we can put some pressure on Apple through them? AFA Bard : Welcome EROCK1! IC Gerry : NOt that I know of, Gayle... AFL Gayle : Welcome, Erock! BCS Frank : Deatailed proposals and continued support for the idea BCS Frank : should go to Rye Livingston of the BCS Frank : User Group Connection. BCS Frank : This isn't a case of pressure... rather a case BCS Frank : of mutual; interest. AFA Bard : A great idea -- will request a letter/proposal be drafted and sent to UGC ASAP. I agree-- this will AFA Bard : only help both Apple and it's customers/users. BCS Frank : In adition I'd stay in close touch with other user groups on this topic. AFL Gayle : Does he have an account here online, Frank? BCS Frank : Yes he does. AFL Gayle : What is his screen name? BCS Frank : Not sure how often he checks it though. BCS Frank : He's a VERY busy guy. AFL Oli : BAK BCS Frank : ... checking.... AFL Gayle : Oli, what's wrong with your sons? AFA Bard : Screen name = Rye L :)) AFL Gayle : Thanks, Bard. :) BCS Frank : Thanks, Bard... he's got another with his UGC tag too. AFL Oli : just colds... a bit of antibiotic for the youngest cause of a continued runny diaper. AFL Oli : (are we having fun yet?) AFL Gayle : Gee, they're not supposed to have such things in the summer time! ;) AFA Bard : EROCK -- how are things in Corona? BCS Frank : Too bad you don't have a macro for that, Oli. :) AFL Gayle : UGC name not listed in the directory, Frank. AFL Gayle : (Maybe he DOES, Frank! ;) BCS Frank : :) AFA Bard : :) AFL Gayle : Oli's the macroman, you know. ;) IC Gerry : That is natural with kids, Oli..we have all been through that numerous times.. BCS Frank : Wish I'd known that when my lil' ones were littler. :) AFA Bard : Welcome DGum! AFL Gayle : Welcome, DGum! :) AFL Oli : the littlest is 21 months; a real pistol AFL Oli : Hi doug. AFL Gayle : Uh oh. Almost time for the terrible twos. ;) DGum : hi, all! AFL Gayle : That one is Oli the (whatever.) What do you call him? BCS Frank : Pretty soon they'll be asking for the car keys... AFA Bard : Pretty soon they'll be asking for their own car! AFL Gayle : Whatever meaning IV, I think. :) BCS Frank : Oli v.4.0? AFL Gayle : LOL, Frank! :) AFA Bard : LOL Frank! BCS Frank : hen he'll start (up)dating and after a while you get Oli v.5. :) AFL Gayle : Groan, Frank. ;) AFA Bard : And there is QUITE a fee for that upgrade, Frank. :)) BCS Frank : Oh, yes. AFL Gayle : True, Bard. :) Feed him for several years, for starters. ;) BCS Frank : Requires lots of system support.... DGum : My favorite saying about kids: AFA Bard : Virus protection is a factor, too. :) DGum : You spend the first 2 years teaching them to Walk and Talk DGum : then 18 more, telling them to sit-down and shut-up! BCS Frank : :) AFL Gayle : Yes, but it appears the virus protection is only post-effective, Bard. ;) AFA Bard : ROTFL Gayle. BCS Frank : But you do get revenge, when AFL Gayle : 'Tis true, Doug. :) BCS Frank : they become parents too. :) AFL Gayle : Ah, Grandpa Frank? :) BCS Frank : Moi? Not for a few more years... though Frank v.5.0 is a teen. AFL Gayle : Oh, OK. :) DGum : My mother's favorite is Grandkids and Grandparents get along DGum : because they are united by a common ENEMY! AFL Gayle : LOL! :) AFA Bard : Good one, Doug. ;) BCS Frank : :) AFA Bard : Rehi^2 Gerry! IC Gerry : groan.... AFL Gayle : Gerry, get a real computer. ;) AFA Bard : Hey Gayle... that dump-DOS utility you sent really DOES work. }:> IC Gerry : Gayle!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BCS Frank : Must be AOL exceeds the 640K limit.... :) AFL Gayle : Moi??? Not me... Had to be Bard. :) AFA Bard : <-- not Bard, just an alias. :) AFL Gayle : He admitted earlier he's become IBM savy in the past week. ;) DGum : well, gotta run...:) AFA Bard : IBM savy - don't you take penicillin for that? BCS Frank : But kids aren't all bad.... BCS Frank : ... without 'em we'd have no AED Forum. AFL Gayle : True, Frank. :)))_ AFL Oli : Gotta go to my chat now, see ya everyone. AFA Bard : You said it, Frank! BCS Frank : See you, Oli :) AFA Bard : Thanks for coming by, Oli. AFL Gayle : Bye, Oli. Thanks for stopping by! Hope the kids are well soon. :) 7/7/91 9:04:38 PM Closing Chat Log.