2/27/94 8:08:38 PM Opening "chat227" for recording. AFA Bard : Well folks... shall we chat? Our topic tonight is scheduled to be THE FATE OF THE APPLE //E IN AFA Bard : EDUCATION. As you are no doubt aware- Apple Computer silently dismissed the last IIgs from SandyE : It makes Mike sick that he sold the stock...he's driving it in the form of his new Honda AFA Bard : their Education price list on January 1 of this year. With more than 5.5 MILLION units sold- it's AFA Bard : clearly the most successful educational computer in history. Now the Mac and *soon* the PowerMac. So, AFA Bard : if you're a system like mine who has more than 4,000 apple II systems- what do you do? MaryEz : Why do they keep making IIe's then? AFA Bard : Your thoughts? AFA Bard : Just what's in stock now, Mary. IIe is out of production. SandyE : Did you see an article in April MacUser MaryEz : You keep using them until they die and then you combine the dead ones to make more working ones. AFA Bard : Kind of like teachers, Mary? AFA Bard : :) MaryEz : ROTFL!!!!!! AFA Bard : What's the effect of introducing lots of new Macs on your students/teachers- do they want to use the AFA Bard : Apple // computers any more? If so, for what? MaryEz : What do I do with IIes and GS and only a couple Macs and no chance of buying more than one or two MaryEz : a year? AFA Bard : Welcome IKine! We're talking about the Apple //e in the wake of Mac Dominance. :) AFA Bard : Mary-- so what are you buying now? MaryEz : Nothing. AFA Bard : Nothing? MaryEz : We got two Mac IIs because secretary computers crashed and that's it. AFA Bard : So you have no Macs for student use? MaryEz : We got a MacIII because the asst super wanted the old Mac II for his bulletin board service and MaryEz : that's it! AFA Bard : A Mac III? As in a LISA? SandyE : GEEEZZZZZZZZ!!!!!!!! AFA Bard : rehi Sandy! AFA Bard : Hiya Betsy- we're discussing "The Fate of the Apple // in Education" MaryEz : We have one Mac LCIII in the library with one CDRom and that's it. SandyE : A kid of mine, who will remain nameless, picked up the phone. What'd I miss? AFA Bard : Oh.. LC III. I see. What applications are you currently running on your IIe's and IIgs's mary? SandyE : I was just getting ready to ask if you guys had read the April MacUser SandyE : John Dvorak's article about the Apple IIe is something else! AFA Bard : (You missed IKine, another user, getting dumped.) BetsyF6520 : Hello, I'm computer teacher in Ohio - I have a lab of 25 Apple IIs. BetsyF6520 : I wish I had some MACs AFA Bard : Saw it, Sandy. I was furious. Think he was wearing his I *heart* Big Blue boxers when he wrote that? SandyE : Hi, Betsy! We also have an Apple IIe lab at our school MaryEz : AppleWorks, Dazzle Draw, VCR Companion, LogoWriter AFA Bard : Betsy-- what do you currently run on your A2 s? SandyE : He was pretty opinionated (nothing new there) that's for sure. He sorta wiped out an entire era! BetsyF6520 : Mary do you use Dazzle Draw with IIe's? AFA Bard : Welcome TtimeS! We're chatting about the fate of the Apple II in education. MaryEz : My curriculum hasn't changed in 5 years when I was ahead of the game. Now I'm behind. SandyE : Mary, you'll always be ahead of the game! BetsyF6520 : We run lots of MECC stuff - not exciting and Children's Writing & Pub. MaryEz : If you see Nananor come in, she is my sister. Recently signed on to AOL. AFA Bard : Betsy-- have you tried LogoWriter? SandyE : What MECC stuff...I've seen some neat MECC stuff! BetsyF6520 : We just got it, I haven't tried it yet. AFA Bard : LogoWriter is great to breathe life into a tiring A2 lab. AFA Bard : Welcome Elaine!!!! Elaine 100 : Evening everyone, it is getting harder and harder to get on line. BetsyF6520 : One I just tried was MECC graph - I used it with Paper pLane pilot & had SandyE : LogoWriter is great for the kids (adults too). Teachs logic and programming and it's fun! SandyE : Hi Elaine! Survive the week? BetsyF6520 : the kids graph their results - it was good. MaryEz : I don't use CW&P anymore because the elementary kids who come to me have used the Writing Center AFA Bard : Paper Plane Pilot,Betsy? BetsyF6520 : Also I'm doing a lot with data bases - Europe & Soviet Union MaryEz : so there isn't much point in having them use CW&P Elaine 100 : My fingers are still sore from all that typing last week. :) MaryEz : Hi, Vince! AFA Bard : Welcome Vince- We're chatting about the Apple //e's still surviving! AFL Gayle : Hi, all! :) VinceS4014 : Not a bad machine, but no longer made! BetsyF6520 : Paper plane pilot is a simulation where you control variables & fly planes MaryEz : I didn't have enough intelligencees to come last week, Elaine! AFA Bard : (Elaine- you did a WONDERFUL job!) Elaine's chat: Multiple Intelligences, is available for download AFA Bard : in the AED/New Files library. :) AFA Bard : Betsy-- who makes it? BetsyF6520 : MECC BetsyF6520 : It's about 2 or 3 years old - unfortunately you have to belong to MEcc AFA Bard : Hiya Gayle! Elaine 100 : Thanks Bard, it was a topic I was very interested in. Still am... SandyE : Mary--did I just see NanAnor? Where'd she go? AFL Gayle : She left, Sandy. NanANor : Mary, are you here? VinceS4014 : Sorry, just dropped in, what have I missed? AFL Gayle : And she's back! :) Hi, Nan! :) AFA Bard : So.. we've got Betsy using Paper Plane Pilot (MECC) as a great A2 graphing activity- Mary's doing Elaine 100 : Our school is revising their Vision/Mission statement. I would appreciate any help. AFA Bard : wonderful things with VCR Companion- Sandy's doing LogoWriter. What do you other folks think? Is AFL Gayle : MECC products are available to nonmembers, too, Betsy. MaryEz : Yes, Nancy, meet my friends who are all computer people. AFA Bard : there life left in our Apple //e & //gs machines? AFA Bard : (Hi NanaNor, Mikey!) MikeyD321 : Hi Bard BetsyF6520 : Yes, there are some on the market - but if you're a member you can get lots NanANor : Hello all. I've just stopped by to see if we are having a Sister Chat tonight? NanANor : ga Mary BetsyF6520 : of copies for not too many bucks AFA Bard : <-- computer person from Georgia. :) AFL Gayle : Yes, Bard!! :)))) AFL Gayle : Right, Betsy. :) MaryEz : Bard et als, I have created a new monster, my sister, Nancy who just signed on two weeks ago MaryEz : and has used all her 10 hours in no time!!! BetsyF6520 : Our school district has been financially behind the 8 ball & could aford 0. Elaine 100 : Easy to do. Welcome Nancy. AFA Bard : Mikey-- how about you- got any Apple //e computers at your school? AFL Gayle : Trained her well, Mary. :) SandyE : Hi Nancy! Welcome...are you also an educator? VinceS4014 : Any of you have labs in your schools? NanANor : A teacher I am definitely not. We all have different talents although we are all organizers MikeyD321 : I just dropped by to see what this section was all about. IIgs at home BetsyF6520 : Yes, 25 Apple IIes and 1 GS MaryEz : Yes, Vince, I have a lab of 25 Apple IIgs. BetsyF6520 : Mary the GS is neat, have you tried Storybook Weaver by MECC NanANor : Mary (and friends) I will leave you now as I cannot contribute to your discussion. Bye Mary, MikeyD321 : Bard, I used to teach school unluckily it was before computers. VinceS4014 : Sounds like you are well equipped!! Have one in each room, some have two or three II-e's and GS's. MaryEz : Bye, nancy. AFA Bard : G'night Nancy! Elaine 100 : Aren't the schools become more equipped with Macs? BetsyF6520 : Storybook Weaver has 500+ graphics. You create a picture & then write MaryEz : Betsy, I can't use StoryBook Weaver because it requires two 3.5 drives. BetsyF6520 : You can print in color - the pictures are outstanding MikeyD321 : G'night Nancy. Do any of you have your //e or IIgs networked? VinceS4014 : Would like to get Mac's but problem of money!! BetsyF6520 : Yes, Mary you are right - I can only do it at one computer AFA Bard : We've got a couple of IIgs and //e networks in our system, Mikey. MikeyD321 : Bard, what do you use as a server? MaryEz : I have classes of 23 kids doing VCR Companion and Dazzle Draw right now making their own commercials. BetsyF6520 : What network software/ hardware do you use? AFA Bard : In the //gs labs we use a Mac SE/30. The Apple//e labs are networked using equipment by Mastery AFA Bard : Development. It's network cards and a IIgs server. MaryEz : I have a Digicard network with keyboard and video net. AFA Bard : Mastery Dev. nets come preloaded with ALL MECC titles, AWorks and more. BetsyF6520 : How many connected per network? How about load time? MaristR : Hey, everyone. I finally made it on. MikeyD321 : I work at the Weather Service and we are trying to network a bunch of IBM's MikeyD321 : talk about frustrating. AFA Bard : The //gs lab has 30 workstations- with MECC and a program called EasyShare, it's very fast. In AFA Bard : the Mastery Dev. labs, it's quick as well. Mary.. how abou the load time in your DigiCard lab?? Elaine 100 : Hi Marist. Glad you made it. MikeyD321 : Hi, MaristR glad to see you make it. MaristR : It only took me 20 minutes to get on. AFL Gayle : Mikey, why is it frustrating to try to network IBMs? MaryEz : I can load 25 computers with Appleworks 3.0 in about 2.5 minutes. I don't know whether that is MaryEz : fast or slow but it's good enough for me. MaristR : It's slow. MikeyD321 : The problem seems to come with windows and the limited amount of memory. MaryEz : I can not load HyperStudio in less than 15 minutes so I don't use it. AFA Bard : That's FAST for an Apple // lab, Mary. It's frustrating when the class changes in 1 minute, though. MaryEz : I love my net because I can show one monitor on all monitors which is great when we telecommunicate. BetsyF6520 : Mikey - I understand a new version of Windows for Workstations is good. MaristR : Are you running windows from the network or the C drive? MikeyD321 : That is a good suggestion but some of you think schools are bad try getting SandyE : Mary, I use EasyShare in my Mac lab and love it also MikeyD321 : something out of the government. MaryEz : I also can lock out all the keyboards from my workstation which is also great. AFA Bard : Welcome Bre5! We're chatting about the "fate" of the Apple // in education. MaryEz : I love it when the kids get to noisy and I lock out the keyboards, Heh, heh, heh @;-> SandyE : Me too Mary, quiets em down in a flash, doesn't it? MaryEz : to = too SandyE : Mary!!! GMTA MikeyD321 : Marist. I have windows on two servers with dos on the rest. MaristR : We run windows from the C drive and it is faster than the network. AFA Bard : Anyone out there used or heard of LegoLogo for the Apple //? AFL Gayle : LOL, Mary! :) Sneaky. :) AFL Gayle : Heard of it. Haven't used it, Bard. SandyE : Just LegoLogo for the Mac, Bard MaryEz : I use Lego/Logo in summer school, Bard. I bought two kits myself because I love it but it's not MikeyD321 : Do any of you school people run CD Rom's on your IIgs? MaristR : Bard, Kathryn Bailley uses it over at Paidia. MaryEz : practical for large classes. AFA Bard : Uh huh, Rog. We've used it in three or four schools. Mary- can you tell us how you've used it AFA Bard : and what it is? MaryEz : No, Mikey, I have one CDRom hooked to the one Mac in the library. MaristR : CD's are great, but the access time is slower than disk drives. MikeyD321 : I have just got the Apple PowerCD and I think it application would be great MaryEz : Lego/Logo is lego bricks for building robotic devices and programmed with Logo. They are run MikeyD321 : in the classroom. MaryEz : by an interface between the robot and the computer. MaristR : Does anyone use the Fischer Technics which similar to LegoLogo? MaryEz : It comes with plans for building various devices and I have the kids do them in coops before they MaryEz : can design their own robots. AFA Bard : We've got one school using the Fischer system. They like it, too. MaristR : Which computer are they running it on? MaryEz : Apple IIe. AFA Bard : What's the learning curve on the Robotics, Mary? AFA Bard : A2, Rog. MaryEz : I don't worry about learning curves in summer school. It's for fun. I would say they learn MaryEz : quite quickly because the class is only two weeks long and they are writing procedures fairly MaryEz : quickly. MaryEz : As with most things, it depends on what skills the kids bring with them and how invested they are in MaryEz : succeeding. MaryEz : and cooperating!!!! MaryEz : I use it with 5/6 graders. MaryEz : ga AFA Bard : Anyone out there use VCR Companion? MaryEz : Yup! AFA Bard : Mary- how do you integrate it with your regular class? MaryEz : In my computer classes all 5th graders, working in pairs, create a commercial. They use Dazzle Draw MaristR : I know a school that uses VCR Companion on their closed circuit TV system for daily MaristR : announcements. MaryEz : to draw their backgrounds and VCR Companion for the scripts then we tape and use video camera with MaryEz : the overlay card. All are required to add background music either from tape, cd, microphone or MaryEz : keyboards. SandyE : Mary...what sizes are your classes? MaryEz : In an English class they do video poetry. MaryEz : 22-23 kids MaryEz : It's a zoo!! AFA Bard : Cool! Video Poetry? Do Tell! MaryEz : I work with one of the 5th grade Language Arts teachers on a student created video of student MaryEz : written poetry. Using all the same stuff mentioned earlier except we use the microphone from the MaryEz : video camera to record the student's voice reading their poem while the script is being taped. MaryEz : Very low tech, but highly successful project. Elaine 100 : Sounds like a great lesson. MaryEz : I've been doing this for 5 years since I attended Fred D'Ignazio's Technology Sandbox at Michigan MaryEz : State. SandyE : Doesn't sound low tech to me! MaryEz : Multimedia Sandbox, that is. SandyE : We use Kid Pix and Kid Pix Companion to do the same type project. Also HyperStudio for the more SandyE : advanced kids. AFA Bard : Really Mary? I've seen and spoken with Fred several times. Was it really as exciting as they AFA Bard : say? MaryEz : The trick is getting all the cables plugged into the right places! Martine536 : wow! Are you all early??? or...is this another chat? MaryEz : We talked, ate, slept multimedia for 3 days from breakfast through dinner until 9 pm. AFA Bard : It's the weekly Apple //Education Chat, Martine! :) MaryEz : It was the best computer workshop I have ever had!!! Martine536 : oops...sorry! AFA Bard : Sounds great! How about videodiscs and the Apple //. Anyone tried THAT? MaryEz : Yup. Neka : hi all :) AFA Bard : Using HyperStudio, Mary? AFA Bard : Welcome Neka- we're chatting about the Apple //e in Education.. MaryEz : GTV. Geographic perspective on American History. MaryEz : TutorTech. MaryEz : TutorTech is great because it only require 128K and it works quite well. Teachers have done some MaryEz : stacks on sound, light using Optical Data physical science laser discs. Elaine 100 : Bard, what are some topics in upcoming weeks? AFA Bard : Neat! Well, folks, we've hard LOTS of great ways to use the Apple // in classrooms/labs tonight. AFA Bard : We've got topics like HYPERSTUDIO and FUTURE APPLE PRODUCTS on the calendar. Check the schedule MaryEz : Using my Digicard net I can put laser disc images on all screens in the lab. AFA Bard : online for more information! If you've got chat topics you'd like to see considered- please e-mail AFA Bard : me and we'll work something out! AFA Bard : Now for the FREE HOUR... AFA Bard : ... Here it is... AFA Bard : Are you folks excited to hear WHO WON- or WHAT? MaryEz : Yes!!!!! AFA Bard : Well? AFA Bard : Free Hour? AFL Gayle : *drumroll* AFA Bard : Hello? MaryEz : *fanfare* AFA Bard : .... the winner... for saying the word "GS" first in the chat is...... SandyE : Yes! Yes! Tell AFA Bard : MARYEZ!!!!!!! Yea!!!!!! AFA Bard : Yippee! MaristR : WTG Mary. SandyE : Way to GO! Mary!!!!!!!! AFA Bard : Huzzah, huzzah! Elaine 100 : Way to go Mary... MaryEz : *fightgoeson* AFL Gayle : *Applause* for Mary! :) AFA Bard : ()()()()()()()()() AFA Bard : Applause! MaryEz : Thank you!!Thank you!!Thank you!!Thank you!!Thank you!!Thank you!!Thank you!!Thank you!!Thank you!! AFA Bard : Mary also shared some TERRIFIC ideas tonight. Be sure and DOWNLOAD the chat log that will be posted AFA Bard : in the AED New Files Library later this evening. :) MaryEz : Don't you love copy and paste!!!! AFA Bard : Join our happy band of merry educational revelers each Sunday, from 8-9 ET in the AED conference SandyE : Couldn't survive survive survive survive survive survive survive without it AFA Bard : room for witty banter, great content and a FREE HOUR! MaryEz : Thank you!!Thank you!!Thank you!!Thank you!!Thank you!!Thank you!!Thank you!!Thank you!!Thank you!! MaryEz : See you next week! Elaine 100 : Nite all, see you next week. AFA Bard : You're welcome^10! G'night folks! AFA Bard : See you all next week! AFA Bard : Bring your friends! AFL Gayle : Good night, all! Thanks for coming! :) AFA Bard : Your pets! AFA Bard : Your teachers! AFA Bard : Your students! AFA Bard : Anyone! 2/27/94 10:46:14 PM Closing Log file.