Date: 5/1/94 Start Time: 8:00:01 PM End Time: 9:05:53 PM Number of participants: 16 Participants: AFA Andy, AFA Bard, AFL Gayle, AnneH48931, ArtDoc777, BobFrost, DMRyan, Fireman B, IIProMarty, JAGarbe, JKlin1, MaristR, MaryEz, SAZZ12, SethET, VanDans AFA Bard : Welcome to AED! Tonight's topic is OPEN CHAT! So whatever's on your mind- just let loose! And, of course, a FREE HOUR awarded at chat's end!! MaryEz : Does anyone have a list of error messages for the Mac? AFA Bard : Bob--- I've always wanted to know-- is a loaf of bread really $5.00 up there? (this is BREAK THE RUMORS in ALASKA night!) Yes Mary--- got one on the screen now-- which one? MaryEz : 2, 3, 15, 97 JAGarbe : MacWorld published an article on error lists a few months ago. You may be able to find it in the MW On-line section BobFrost : Prices on foodstuffs are only a bit higher. Bread $1.19, eggs 1.09. Not outrageous AFA Bard : Are those negatives or positive numbers, Mary? Aha.. is ANYTHING cheaper up there? How about gasoline? MaryEz : I am having a heck of a time with my SI. Oh, I never paid attention to that, Bard. AFA Bard : That's important-- 2, 3, 15 are all "program execution" errors. They're like a BREAK problem in BASIC MaryEz : I've been having bus errors, bad F-Line instructions, and many others. AFA Bard : I don't have 97. All three are different if they are negatives. BobFrost : Gas is $1.13 a gallon. We just ship the oil out of here. We're the only place that wants higher oil prices.\ AFA Bard : Have you screened for viruses? Rebuilt the desktop? Bob-- it's 89.9 here for reg. unleaded. I'll bet snow-cones are a bargain, though! LOL! MaryEz : Yes, Bard, I did that about a month ago and things went fine until Friday when all the errors started AFA Bard : Welcome Anne! It's OPEN TOPIC night here in AED! Mary-- try booting from a startup disk, trashing your FINDER PREFS file and restarting. JAGarbe : ...and she'd gone as quickly as she came... AFA Bard : Poof! MaryEz : appearing again. I can restart turning off extensions and work that way but it is not what I want to do. BobFrost : These things are great until they don't work right! AFA Bard : JAG-- remind me where youu're from? MaryEz : I have used SAM and Apple disk doctor to no avail. JAGarbe : <--IL AFA Bard : Try the FINDER PREFS thing,Mary. If that doesn't work zap your PRAM. Just out of curiousity, JAG-- how much is gasoline there? Welcome again, Anne! MaryEz : The Disinfectant 3.5 from AOL doesn't work right. Bard, one more question. What is a system heap? AnneH48931 : Hello JAGarbe : varies if youre in chicago or out..just about a buck She's back! MaryEz : My system takes up 11,000K which seems very high to me. AFA Bard : Mary-- that's the memory tables (like a memory buffer). I'd say the FINDER PREFS and/or PRAM thing will cure your woes-- sounds like your FINDER/DESKTOP files are corrupted. Try it later! How are you tonight, Anne? MaryEz : OK, thanks, Bard. BobFrost : Anne, I noticed you're a tech. resources teacher. What's that? AnneH48931 : Fine, and you. what is the topic for tonigt. AFA Bard : It's OPEN TOPIC-- anything your heart desires! Welcome JKlin! JKlin1 : Hello to you AFA Bard AnneH48931 : I do a little of everything, to keep the teachers and the computer in our building up and AFA Bard : I don't suppose that THE Jay K. of GBuster fame hiding under there, is it? AnneH48931 : running. AFA Bard : Hiya ANDY!!! AFA Andy : BARD!!!!! :) AFA Bard : It's OPEN TOPIC night here in AED! BobFrost : I need a floppy virus checker for Macs. I have a new lab but no $$$. Any ideas? AnneH48931 : Does anyone have any summer enrichment programs started? AFA Andy : Not yet :D JAGarbe : Enrichment fin what area,Annee AFA Bard : Bob Frost was telling us that the sun goes down in Alaska (where he is) at 11:00 pm. I couldn't imagine! JAGarbe : AFA Bard : Hiya Roger! Welcome to OPEN CHAT night! MaryEz : Yes, I will be doing word processing, telecommunication, and robotics during July and MaristR : Hey, all! AFA Andy : Me either :) MaryEz : first week in August AFA Andy : That sounds great Mary! AnneH48931 : All areas, but computer must be included in area. I think I do a lego logo but don't know. JAGarbe : Hi, Roger! AFA Bard : We're doing another tennis & computer camp this year. MaryEz : Oh, and LogoWriter. AFA Bard : Lego Logo is terrific! Have you seen MicroWorlds, Anne? BobFrost : Wait 'til June, Bard. It doesn't set until much later and comes up real early! MaristR : Hey Jag. JAGarbe : I love the Lego LOGO projects! I find that 6th graders can't get enough AFA Andy : <-- normally does origami, chemistry, and dinosaurs in summer. MaryEz : How many kits do you have, JA? AnneH48931 : No we are an IBM School with a smattering of apples BobFrost : Where can I get materials, costs, etc. on LEGO LOGO? MaristR : Anne, are your computers networked? JAGarbe : Just one, but this is our first year using it and I've discovered one of the moyors has "run" away... AFA Bard : LegoLogo is distributed by Dacta, Inc. I'll see if I've got their number! MaryEz : They are in Enfield, CT JA I will send address tomorrow. AnneH48931 : Lego Dacta is out of Enfield Conn. No we are not netwroked, and I'm glad! BobFrost : <--- does lots of salmon fishing. MaristR : Why are you glad your not networked? MaryEz : Ohh! I love salmon, Bob. AFA Bard : Ooooo... I LOVE salmon!! BobFrost : Thanks, Mary, Bard. Like I said, new lab and maybe next year we can get something other than basics. MaristR : The salmon would cook great in my green egg. MaryEz : GMTA, Bard. AFA Bard : :) MaryEz : Or GSTA! AnneH48931 : Too much trouble, not enough freedom for the students to explore. We runmost of out program AFA Bard : With Spam, Roger? Welcome Speedy! It's OPEN CHAT night here in AED tonight! AnneH48931 : s from a hard drive or disk, give the children some know-how in how the computer really MaristR : Bard, I should have said komado. AFA Bard : Hiya Seth! It's OPEN CHAT night here in AED tonight! BobFrost : Come on up sometime. 30 pounders are not unusual!! My family actually gets tired of it. :( SethET : Great! I'm new around here, what's the topic now? AFA Bard : Anne-- so your Lego stuff is connected to DOS machines? OPEN TOPIC, Seth.. that means whatever's on folks mind! AnneH48931 : Yes, we have been using it for about 3 years now. AFL Gayle : Hi, All! :) AFA Andy : [[[[[[Gayle]]]]]]]]] :) AFA Bard : Gayle!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! MaristR : Hey, Gayle JAGarbe : Hi, Gayle! MaryEz : How many kids are using how many Lego kits? MaryEz : Hi, Gayle. Happy to see you! JAGarbe : I have them work in groups of 2 - 6 MaristR : Does anyone use Ficher Technics instead of Lego Logo? SethET : It AnneH48931 : We are limited that way we just have 2 kits so we work in rather large groups SethET : Whoops!! JAGarbe : The larger the group, the better the problem solving MaryEz : I was in North Carolina during vacation week. In Belhaven, Gayle. AFA Bard : Have you tried the Fisher kit, Roger? SethET : I am from NC. Great place. Better than shakin' LA! MaristR : Where in NC, Mary? We like to go to Bryson City. AFL Gayle : And you didn't come to see me, Mary? AnneH48931 : Our 7th grade used technics for a while. Ja, you made me feel less guilty MaristR : We have the Fisher kit, but it's harder to use then the lego kit. JAGarbe : No guilt at all! Set them up as a resource team with each group member having a job MaristR : Anne, which kit do you have. AFA Bard : Why was it harder, Roger? MaryEz : I agree, Roger. I have two Lego kits and one Fischer but we use the Legos most. JAGarbe : Like Plans Reader, Secretary, etc... Records keeper They can swith roles during a session if they get too bored SethET : Hi Fireman B! Fireman B : hi MaristR : It's harder to program the Fisher kit, and if you use it on the DOS machine you have to have IBM DOS so you can use BASIC A. AFA Bard : Hiya Lizzy, Dick & Fireman! It's OPEN CHAT night here in AED!! AnneH48931 : Its the beginners set for the race car I think is is set one. MaryEz : I use them in summer school only because I have 260 fifth graders and you just can't use 2 kits with that many kids. Only 10 in the summer school robotics class. AnneH48931 : No we can't use Basica with Dos 6 it uses qbasic. there is a conversion I think JAGarbe : Do you "group" your classes at all, Mary? MaryEz : Group? MaristR : I haven't been able to find the conversion. If you have any information send it to me. AnneH48931 : That is about the number I'm going for Mary. I think it will work. MaryEz : You mean cooperative groups or leveling groups, JA? JAGarbe : For example, I have 20 students per class with % doing a writing project, % on LOGO, % doing Robotics AnneH48931 : Martis I'll look for the info tommorow I know I read it somewhere JAGarbe : and % on keyboarding . We rotate stations each week MaristR : Thanks. AnneH48931 : You must Have a nive size room. I'm in a trailer! AFA Bard : What keyboarding program, Jag? MaryEz : With Lego, I don't want to have the robots broken down and rebuilt with each class so I don't use during school year, just in summer. JAGarbe : PAWS MaristR : Does anyone know what it takes to set up an internet node? JAGarbe : money MaryEz : Do any of you get hassled by the high school business dept. for doing keyboarding in lower grades? MaristR : How much money? JAGarbe : LOL! AFA Bard : $35,000 in equipment & licenses, $200/month for a T1 line. ;) MaristR : Ouch. AFA Bard : YES Mary! That's a VERY hot issue in my district! We're gonna bring in business ed. folks next year MaristR : But maybe not our of reach. AnneH48931 : YES! I tell them I not teaching typing I only teach Keyboarding and let them figure out the difference AFA Bard : to train ES teachers, though. How about there? JAGarbe : Yes, Mary. They chide me for not doing enough keyboarding AFA Andy : Good for you Anne. LOL! BobFrost : The junior high teacher that I send kids to just has to repeat keyboarding because not all schools teach it. MaristR : Anne, I taught keyboarding last term. AnneH48931 : For the whole term? MaryEz : I have been told hands off teaching keyboarding. That is their domain! I guess they are looking for MaristR : Yes, 13 weeks. MaryEz : job security. BobFrost : My wife ( a business teacher) wants us to teach it at a younger age so she can do more with using it. MaristR : All our new students are required to take it their first year. JAGarbe : No kidding! I wish it were that way with me! They want to teach the "cream" while I do all the dirty work AFA Andy : Hey MARTY!!!!!!!!!! MaryEz : I wish the elementary schools would teach it so I could get more deeply into word processing technique s IIProMarty : Hello AnneH48931 : I use keyboarding as an intro to word procressing,and do both together then forget about it AFA Bard : Marty! Great to see you! When do YOU think keyboarding should be taught? JAGarbe : I teach it consistantly from 2nd grade up through 8th BobFrost : I start them in third grade and repeat in 4th and 5th. AFL Gayle : Marty teaches keyboarding in 7th grade. IIProMarty : Whenever kids are ready to learn it. :) MaryEz : Me too, Anne, I do the old home key drills etc. in AppleWorks as a warmup for the first 3/4 minutes of class. IIProMarty : Elementary grades would probably be best, imho.... Probably 3rd grade or so. MaryEz : I only see my classes once in a 6 day cycle so nothing sticks too much anyway. IIProMarty : Hard to get any continuity going that way Mary. AFA Bard : Welcome David & KNDG! It's OPEN TOPIC night, right now we're talking about keyboarding. AnneH48931 : I glad to hear that Mary . It is an ongoing discussion in my district. AFA Bard : How many days is enough for keyboarding? MaryEz : You said it, Marty! AFA Andy : I agree, Marty. The earlier they learn to tye correctly the better. MaristR : You need a whole term to teach it correctly. AnneH48931 : Mary,I am on the same kind of schedule your on. No continunity or retention. MaryEz : Daily, Roger? IIProMarty : At least a term. I have the kids for 30 days and that's certainly not enough. MaristR : Yes. JAGarbe : No such thing as to much...Would like to se it as part of reular classroom study like handwriting BobFrost : 3 days a week, 4 weeks, 25 minutes a day is what I usually do. With some kids that's enough. AnneH48931 : Not only a whole term be there are some little hands and big keyboards out there. BobFrost : With others it's too boring (their term) MaristR : It's like any other motor skill. You can't good at it unless you practice. MaryEz : Mine too, Bob! AFA Bard : The research seems to suggest 3rd grade is the best place to start concentrated instruction-- do you folks agree? IIProMarty : I do have to admit that it's boring, Bob. BobFrost : But if you do that through 3 years, it does begin to stick with them. MaristR : It's also boring to teach. MaryEz : I had one 5th grader that averaged 90 wpm from using Mavis Beacon at home. AnneH48931 : That is what I keep telling my kids practice but, given a choice in their rooms it isn't Key IIProMarty : You said it! JAGarbe : It's like piano..if there is interest and fingers are long enough, LET'EM Go BobFrost : I start at 3rd but some are so small that their hands can't make the reaches. MaristR : We grade them for both speed and technique. IIProMarty : 7th graders have small hands too (some of them). BobFrost : Should we concentrate on accuracy, speed, or technique? MaristR : Once they've finished the keepboarding class, I also grade them for keyboarding skills in MaryEz : How much money do any of you spend on software in your schools? AFA Bard : I'd say technique and accuracy first- later speed. MaristR : my computer class. JAGarbe : Again it's like piano. They can learn to stretch... IIProMarty : In my classroom I focus on accuracy and technique. The speed will take care of itself over time. AFL Gayle : Technique, then accuracy; speed LAST priority IIProMarty : I don't even address the issue of speed. AFA Bard : One study I've read says that kids without instruction, but who have ready access to keyboard can type up to 35 wpm by 2nd grade! AFA Andy : I have to address it. I have to keep telling them to slow down. MaristR : We don't even grade them on speed until the end of the term. AFA Andy : For some reason they think it's a race. IIProMarty : Grading for accuracy takes care of that problem for me, Andy. JAGarbe : Is that because so many of the typing tutorials are designed with RACES built in? AnneH48931 : I know the children get very frustrated when they have a paper to type and are so slow BobFrost : Mary, I spend all I can on software. Unfortunately, it's never enough. AFA Andy : I do, but I still have a few that try to go too fast. MaristR : Accuracy is the most important. It doesn't do any good to type at 60 wpm and have 60 errors IIProMarty : I don't spend anything on software. We purchased AppleWorks for the class about 5 years ago. That's what we use for both keyboarding and WP classes. MaryEz : Just was wondering. I have $200 for supplies and share $1000 for software with Library/Media Center. MaristR : The only way to improving accuacy is by using proper technique. AFA Bard : Mary-- get a site license for HyperStudio. ;) MaryEz : For a school with 575 kids (grades 5 and 6) AnneH48931 : I have no budget at all up until this year we were privately funded now we are going back to MaryEz : That includes CDRom and laser discs. SAZZ12 : are these teacehrs on line? BobFrost : Quality Computers just came out with a new program for Building site licenses. Looks interesting. AnneH48931 : to being school funded. It was great while it lasted AFA Bard : Hiya SAZZ and ArtDoc! It's OPEN CHAT night- we're talking technology dollars right now! IIProMarty : <== teacher SAZZ12 : anyone in michigan just exploring this and brand new AFA Bard : Most of us are teachers, yes, Sazz! Are you? ArtDoc777 : hi Whos got money??? SAZZ12 : cool, i teach in michigan MaristR : Teacher, Georgia SAZZ12 : no one has money at this time in the year JAGarbe : Teacher, IL AFA Bard : Mary's got $1000 bucks to spend on software-- how should she spend it? AFA Andy : <-- Teacher, TN BobFrost : elementary, Palmer, Alaska AFA Bard : <-- tech coordinator, GA IIProMarty : How much money do you need to teach keyboarding? AnneH48931 : Teacher, Okla SAZZ12 : anyone teach govenment, world studies, or econ? MaryEz : Nobody, our budget went down in referendum this week. Now have to cut 350,000 and have another referendum in 3 weeks. MaristR : Computers, but I'm the grand jury this month. AFA Andy : I just teach computer, Sazz. BobFrost : Get Paws keyboarding books and use any wordprocessor. JAGarbe : Mary should get a tax break for her school and donate the moey to mine.... SAZZ12 : is everyone on internet or aol or what service MaryEz : Andy, that's like saying I'm JUST a homemaker. JAGarbe : =: O IIProMarty : AOL and GEnie here SAZZ12 : excuse my naievty MaryEz : I am a computer teacher also. AFA Andy : I know, Mary :D AFA Bard : Since AOL's now Internet-ready, we're ALL on internet! AnneH48931 : Has anyone tried Mario typing? MaristR : I'm AOL, Prodigy, & compuserve. BobFrost : PMBF@Alaska.edu on the Internet. AFA Andy : <-- polka@crtvax.vanderbilt.edu JAGarbe : Talk to me about the Internet here.. I'm dissatisfied IIProMarty : Mario typing? MaristR : We use Keyboard Teacher for DOS. MaryEz : ESBORN@Biomed.med.Yale.edu on internet BobFrost : All Alaska educators can get "net" access. AFA Andy : Gee, that's a mouh full. MaryEz : What do you mean, JA? IIProMarty : SAZZ has yo-yp syndrome :) AFA Bard : Mario typics? Tell us about that, Anne! IIProMarty : yo-yo AFA Andy : Marty :) IIProMarty : (poor keyboaring technique :) AFA Bard : Marty! }:-) IIProMarty : arrgh! JAGarbe : All my Gopher searches have come up with messages that translate "unable to do that search" AnneH48931 : Not enough practice I guess MaristR : What AOL needs is a better way of transfering internet text files instead of in always having to hit the more button. JAGarbe : I don't remember the exact verbiage AFL Gayle : LOL, Anne! :) AFA Bard : JAG-- Gopher had his head in the sand until sometime early this morning. I tried it about an hour ago and it worked. MaryEz : Are you using Veronica to do your searching? AFA Bard : (Veronica now built-in to AOL- try keyword: GOPHER) JAGarbe : That's Good News! AFA Bard : (Remember folks-- a FREE HOUR will be given away at the end of the chat!) MaristR : Does anyone know where you can find a large college of history GIF's? college=collection. AnneH48931 : I feel like Alice in Wonderland when I use Internet Like I'm I in some deep hole JAGarbe : I havent tried the Intrnet sevice in about 2 weeks because I got so frustrated with getting no results AFL Gayle : Good analogy, Anne. :) MaryEz : I must go now, Hope you have luck winning another hour, JA. Also, if anyone knows about UUENCODE etc. BobFrost : Does anybody have a floppy virus checker that's FREE? Disinfectant 3.5 doesn't do it, right? MaryEz : could they please send me a lesson. AFA Bard : Mary-- good night! Can't wait to see you at NECC in Boston! MaristR : Bye, Mary. AFA Bard : Bob-- for the A2? JAGarbe : Roger, Did you try the Smithsonian and Library of Congress? MaristR : They had some, but I need a bigger collection. MaryEz : Me too, Bard. Look for me in the Boyleston Street Hall at 8-10 on Monday morning with my poster! Bye all. JAGarbe : Bye, Mary! AFA Bard : Bob-- there are several good ones for the A2 in the Apple Utility Forum (KEYWORD: AUT). I use VACCINE to scan most of the AED forum files. AnneH48931 : I wonder why all the off-site session at Boston, this time. AFA Bard : Welcome DMRyan! It's OPEN CHAT night here in the AED conference room! DMRyan : thanks I came with a question BobFrost : Actually, I need 'em for the Mac. New lab, keyboarding, wordprocessing software. Nothing else. But AFA Bard : Shoot, ryan! BobFrost : I'm afraid of infection coming in soon. DMRyan : I'm a teacher in Texas been talking to some peers lately about the National Endowment for the Arts AFA Bard : There are other Mac Virus protectors/screeners in the Mac Utility Forum, Bob. (KEYWORD: MUT) DMRyan : How could I find out the federal government's total expenditures for this program? MaristR : You can download the 95 budget in the White House section. DMRyan : Even if I could get it close, I would be happy Thank you Maris! AFA Bard : DMRyan.. try the WHITE HOUSE FORUM (Keyword: White House) here on AOL. The budget's in there! GMTA, Roger! Welcome VanDans! It's OPEN CHAT night here in the education forum. MaristR : Ryan, do you have access to compuserve? DMRyan : No Why? VanDans : Greetings! MaristR : You can search on Knowledge Index on Compuserve and find just about anything. DMRyan : Sounds great! Knowledge is good. MaristR : But is cost extra. It is a division of Dialog. They do have a school teaching additon DMRyan : Bye! AFA Bard : DMR- you can also check the White House GOPHER site through AOL's Internet Center. MaristR : called Classmate for teaching searching skills. VanDans : Peace out! AFL Gayle : Free hour, Bard? JAGarbe : Does CompuServe have a "freebie" trial service like AOL? AFA Bard : Well, folks... it's TIME for the free hour! (You've got your Swami hat on again, right Gayle? LOL! First a couple of announcements... MaristR : They give some free time, but it's not like AOL. Some areas cost extra. AFA Bard : Next week HUG YOUR MOM- there will be NO AED Ed. chat! MaristR : I use it for stock market updates and weather maps. AFL Gayle : *drumroll* AFA Bard : We'll rejoin you on May 15 when the topic will be STAFF DEVELOPMENT IN TECHNOLOGY... MaristR : I need to get a drumroll wav file. BobFrost : Where do I get those neat sounds? AFA Bard : And now.. the free hour! Tonight it goes to the lucky participant who said the secret word "enrichment" first... that was... AnneH48931 Yea!!!!!!! Everybody SCREAM!!!! AFL Gayle : *Applause* for Anne! :) JAGarbe : @@@@@@@@@@@@ ! MaristR : {s yee-ha!} AFA Bard : Anne.. you've WON a free hour! It'll be credited to your account within 72 hours!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yippee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Hooray! BobFrost : *Wild Eep* AnneH48931 : Yeah!! Thanks I really need it. JAGarbe : ^^^^ ...and a crown! AFA Andy : Congrats :D AFA Bard : Nice one, Jag! BobFrost : That's the best sound I've got ;) MaristR : *Yee-Ha!* AFA Bard : Of course-- we're building up to our annual END OF THE YEAR AOL EDUCATION BLOWOUT to celebrate the end of another year (or the SURVIVAL of another year!) Look for some more news online about THAT party soon! How many days do YOU have left 'till summer? (Anyone else counting?????) MaristR : Is this BYOB? AnneH48931 : 16 days and counting Fireman B : 23 days AFA Bard : Definately, Roger-- unless folks want Mint Juleps! :) BobFrost : 6 Mondays (counting Mem. Day Tuesday) every other day is easy. JAGarbe : ..will miss the little buggers AFA Bard : SIXTEEN DAYS, Anne! Lucky!! AnneH48931 : Get a long weekend next week because of unused snow days ! AFA Bard : Anybody got THIS sound yet? BobFrost : Maybe I could order you up some snow. We might still get some. AFA Bard : *CNN voice tag* (Get it in the CNN area here online! James Earl Jones!) JAGarbe : I KNEW I shoould have downloaded that one! AFA Bard : I LOVE that one! MaristR : *goodbye* AFA Bard : we all have that one, Roger. ;) MaristR : Have to go finish putting up a ceiling fan. JAGarbe : Bye. Roger, and All! AFA Bard : And a goodbye to all my online friends! I'm off to edit the chat! Have an AWESOME week! JAGarbe : See 'ya in two weeks! AFA Andy : Did anyone see someone w/o a screen name come in and leave besides me. AFA Bard : Hold your breath, click your heels and say "there's no time like summer, there's no time like summer.. BobFrost : Bye from the thawing north.*Goodbye* AFA Andy : When s/he left I got punted. :/ AFA Bard : Yes, Andy.. saw it. :) AFA Andy : That was strange AFA Bard : First time I've seen that, Andy! Maybe a ghost? AnneH48931 : Thanks Bard See you in two weeks. It is cold in Ok tonight. got to go dig out a blanket bye AFA Andy : First time for me seeing that one too. AFA Bard : Nighty night, Anne! Stay warm! AFA Andy : Night all :) AFA Bard : G'night all!