File: Date: 2/13/93 Start Time: 7:57:39 PM End Time: 9:07:31 PM Number of participants: 18 Participants: AFA Bard, AFC Tooter, BobFrost, BusterPT, DUNMORE, DXSMac, Elaine 100, GaryaW6485, HankinsJ, JillW29630, Martine536, MaryEz, MEEMER123, MOEMOE96, Pogly, Roland3, SandyE, Sherlock4 AFA Bard : OK... since our SPECIAL GUEST is, indeed, here!!! Let's get started... first, let me remind you that we'll award a FREE HOUR at the end of tonight's chat! Now.. without further adieu.. let's tap Sherlock on the shoulder and get him started-- how about a round of applause for Sherlock.. introduce yourself, Ira! : ()()()()()()()() BusterPT : *chimes* Sherlock4 : Hi, this is about "Alternative Assessment and Rubric Writing". I have been AFA Bard : Rubrics & Alternative Assessment, DXS. :) Welcome Sandy! Sherlock4 : teaching Social Studies for the past 30 years as well as conducting inservice courses as well. Elaine 100 : Hi everyone, Bard, I thought I was on next week but here I am. AFA Bard : You are Elaine. :) We love you anyway. :) BusterPT : typing not too bad, too, Sherlock. Sherlock4 : First of all let me put you all onto a really excellent overview book which I picked up at a 2 day workshop: "Assessing Student Performance" by Grant Wiggins who is a former science teacher and currently the president & director of programs for CLASS (center on learning, assessment, and school structure). For many of us "old timers" there is really nothing earth shattering about either "Alternative Assessment" or Rubric Writing. We've been doing it for years within certain systemic limitations. The premise I begin with is that: tests are intrinsically prone to sacrifice validity to achieve reliability and to sacrifice the student's interests for those of the testmaker. BobFrost : See you all later. Windstorm just knocked down 40 ft. tree in my yard. DUNMORE : Youcan say that mouthful again!!!! Sherlock4 : Most of us realize that the current state of testing does not, in most cases, represent an evaluation of what the student needs most: i.e. input on what are the standards that have to be met and the opportunities to turn out a product in the same fashion as required in the real world ---- "the ability to revise, use resources to make the product, consult with others, etc. These are in fact the things that employers expect their employees, at whatever level to be able to do. "ONE SHOT" testing, the refusal to external resources, secrecy of tests JillW29630 : hi! AFA Bard : (Welcome Roger & Jill-- our topic is Rubrics & Alternative Assessment- Sherlock4's our special guest) Sherlock4 : for security reasons, etc. are contrary to these goals. Alternative Assessment says, in effect, make the tests real measurements of what we want for a product, paper/pencil tests are a part of the puzzle but "REAL TESTS" are the major part of the puzzle, set your standards of excellence allow for revisions and external sources and GIVE THE KIDS A RUBRIC (the scoring criteria in advance) so they know the rules and can Self-Assess along the way. For local work to be both useful and credible, faculties must Benchmark Sherlock4 : their grading and work to develop more criterion-referenced procedures and SandyE : Self-Assessment is truly important in my book. Also peer assessment is valuable when done correctly Sherlock4 : better interrater reliabiltiy in their grading. Rubrics aid in doing that. DUNMORE : Man you are on the money . How do we convince Curriculum directors & administrators? Sherlock4 : The learners performance (hi TEDDY) can be proved only when it is measured SandyE : Here with a Band, are we, Toot? JillW29630 : thanks AFA! AFA Bard : Sherlock-- can you define exactly what a "Rubric" is. SandyE : Band=Bang (am I weird or what?) Sherlock4 : against progress not growth. And measuring progress means measuring backward JillW29630 : okay, Elaine 100, I'll send you a message with a little background and what I'm interested in disc Sherlock4 : from the destination. that is, the standards and critera exemplified in models of excellent work. JillW29630 : I'll go now to let everyone focus on assessment, bye! AFA Bard : Can you define exactly what a "Rubric" is? Sherlock4 : Yep, Bard. A Rubric is a scoring guide that is used to evaluate a particular BusterPT : WHAT? Elaine 100 : Good question, that is my concern also what is a rubric? Sherlock4 : type of work. I.E. A scoring Rubric in "free throw shooting" would include SandyE : Whoa-I lost something in the translation...Measured against progress, not growth? Explain, please AFA Bard : Welcome Anne! We're chatting with guest SHERLOCK4 about Alternative Assessment & Rubrics. Sherlock4 : such things as (right after this sandy -- I won't forget) x points for form x points for # of shots sunk, etc. for a total grade. The Standard to "shoot for" although we know they are usually impossible to meet is the PERFECT free throw "artist". This does not mean that students would get discouraged because they "can't be perfect" or reach the ideal. What it does mean is that we would expect certain type of progress for a 4th grader and another from a 12th grader Sherlock4 : if that 12th grader had not progressed in his "skills" we would know that something is wrong with either the kid or the teaching and would better be AFA Bard : Moe-- use keyword: STUFFIT. That'll take you there. :) Sherlock4 : able to target it. The student, however, would be able to see continual Sherlock4 : progress in the skills as the student moves from level to level. In this respect we know that rubrics work. For example, bard and ted teach english, THEY KNOW the difference between an excellent piece of writing and a poor one. Elaine 100 : Since report cards are still a thing in most districts, does this mean pass/fail? Sherlock4 : the way in which they would construct a rubric for an english essay would be this way. No, Elaine. Grades could still be given because we are measuring 2 things at a time here: a. the development of the child toward the standard b. the "relative relationship <---- grade within the age/grade level. BusterPT : It sounds very subjective and uncomplicates pushing someone through. Sherlock4 : Bard and Ted could take a 12th grade or college essay of excellent (as a matter Elaine 100 : Where does a child's maturity level fit into this, especially in K and 1st grade? Sherlock4 : of fact buster it is very objective) ok, I'll come back to english in a sec. let's get to the quest. 1st Elaine. that is maturity level is the "growth" business. We EXPECT certain things from students at each level (maturity, AFA Bard : Ira... Buster has a point-- very subjective. Is that a criticism you've heard often? BusterPT : I believe standards will invariably fall because they are so subjective. I quit, bye! Sherlock4 : small and fine motor coord. etc.) that is the grade. AFA Bard : Welcome BHALL, we're chatting with our guest SHERLOCK4 about Alternative Assessments & Rubrics. Standards of excellence are usually pretty obvious, and not as subjective as buster maintains. An excellent paper is an excellent paper and every teacher can spot it. So let me get back to the example and perhaps you can see how its done: You get the EXEMPLARS of an excellent paper (not at a BusterPT : Great people are not neccessary great in their own time. Sherlock4 : particular grade) and analyze it for WHY it is so good in each category. As you work backwards from the exemplar you are constructing the rubric. Does the paper have ...., does it have ...., etc. a 6 might be the top in each category and a 0 the bottom. Each item would be written out in relative Elaine 100 : sounds like a wholistic scoring, is that what you are referring to? Sherlock4 : detail so that ANYONE who is looking at the work (esp. the student) would be able to determine what they did or did not do. What was overlooked or left out. BusterPT : What subjects does the rubric concern, matter of taste subjects or analytical subjects? Sherlock4 : Here is an example of an Exit-Level Writing Rubric from Colorado (Heritage High School, Littleton) 9-8 The upper range responses satisfy the following criteria: DUNMORE : Do you have some sample rubrics for some tasks that you could upload for us? Sherlock4 : a. summary--the summary (I have some that I use for social studies & will do that for you. Upload them, I mean). should identify main idea of essay. AFA Bard : Yes, Sherlock-- upload them to AED & I'll release! :) Sherlock4 : b. Focus of agreement and/or disagreement may be complete or partial but writer must make clear what he/she is agreeing/disagreeing with. c. support for agreement/disagreement support should provide an analysis of argument and/or relevant and concrete examples d. syle and coherence these papers demonstrate clear style, overall organiz. and consecutiveness of though. they contain few repeated errors in usage grammar or mechanics. Elaine 100 : I would love each one of my students to do that. AFA Bard : Buster-- what did you mean by "matter of taste or analytical subjects?" Welcome Gary.. we're chatting with SHERLOCK4 about Alternative Assessments & Rubrics. Sherlock4 : 7 This grade is used for papers which fulfill basic requirements for the 9-8 grade but have less development support or anaylsis. This will give you a sample. I left off 3-6. By the way Elaine, I do this GaryaW6485 : We are into performance assessment, open ended question assessment for all content areas in Ky. Sherlock4 : with my 11th grade low-track kids who are 2-3 years below in skill levels &/or BusterPT : I was simply saying there is sometimes 'true/false Sherlock4 : LEP kids. I they do a U.S. Book Report/month TYPED and now are into their BusterPT : situations. OK, I like it! Sherlock4 : 5th and analzing it themselves. The get a grade of 0-15 on Self-analysis. GaryaW6485 : Sherlock do you use alternative assessment to repoort to parents as with traditional grades? Sherlock4 : YEP I do. My parents love it. They know exactly where their kids are as do the kids and they, for the most part do not like to fall behind. GaryaW6485 : How do the kids respond to them? SandyE : I think parents DO like the Rubric idea. It's clearer to them than a C or B Sherlock4 : Of course it is. So do the kids. They know in advance what has to be done & what the requirements are. I also give them the opportunity to redo anything for a higher grade within the 1/4 as long as the orginial is stapled to the redo. GaryaW6485 : That's 1 prob. we have in Ky. The dispute of rote knowledge as opposed to critical thinking learning. SandyE : Sherlock: Back to progress versus growth..I'm still fuzzy. Pogly : have you used hyperstudio? Sherlock4 : Ok, sandy, what do YOU generally mean by growth? AFA Bard : rehi Carolyn! Welcome Pogly- we're chatting with sherlock4 about Alternative Assessment & Rubrics. SandyE : Growth=progress to me...a student grows from lacking a skill to mastering a skill. That's progress Elaine 100 : Is this also done in cooperative groups? Sherlock4 : Ok, sandy, just went to my notes and found it. yes individ and coop. elaine. back to sandy's very important question:] GaryaW6485 : Some of my students still say group work means one person doing it all. I try to work around that. Sherlock4 : Growth is measured in terms of change in the individual: how far has the student come? Progreess, however, is measured backward from the destination, GaryaW6485 : Assigning roles or requiring reflective writing on group activity helps. Sherlock4 : the standard: How much closer is Bard to the goal? It makes no sense, DUNMORE : If you have true cooperative groups the students can't say that because you build in dependence. Sherlock4 : to (let me finish this thought for sandy so it will be in the log) for standards to be set for each grade level only. that is why outcomes-based criteria is so sensible. A standard offers an objective ideal, serving as a worthy and tangible goal for everyone--even if at this point in time, for whatever reason, some cannot (yet!) reach it. That is what i mean by the Sherlock4 : difference between progress and growth. MEEMER123 : is anyone in here really experienced with Windows 3.1? (((HELP!!))) AFA Bard : Meemer-- use keyword: BEGINNER to get to an online helper. :) Elaine 100 : Sherlock, does the criteria and standards start with 12th grade and work down to K or the other way? GaryaW6485 : Our state of shoeless kids is on a state system of testing and learning outcomes. Sherlock4 : Well, it seems to me that the "system" has to determine what it is that they want at the end of 12th grade (set those outcomes) and then test for them along the way. working back to K or pre-k. After all, if it worked the other DUNMORE : How do you develop Benchmarks or do you use National ones like those in science & math? Sherlock4 : way, the dist./staff/parents/kids would have no idea what they were "shooting" for at the end of 12th grade. Thanks for being here, I had a ball and I hope "piqued" your interest:-> Elaine 100 : That's what I would hope for. Where does portfolios fit into this? GaryaW6485 : Advance Testing systems of Vermont got a huge contract for all the benchmarks, testing stuff. SandyE : Sherlock--you did a great job. Are your fingers sore? AFA Bard : Thank YOU Sherlock! What a great chat! Thanks for all your input, and to SHERLOCK for bring us some great information... the log will be posted in minutes in the AED New Files area... and now... : : Free Hour Award Time! : : DUNMORE : Wonderful job Sherlock Top of the rubric to you AFA Bard : Tonight's free hour goes to SANDYE for the word "peer"! Congrats to SANDY! Let's hear some applause for SHERLOCK and SANDY!!!! Sherlock4 : {{{{{{{{{{{{yea Sandy}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}} DUNMORE : ()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()() Clapping GaryaW6485 : *Simple Beep* Elaine 100 : Way to go Sandy. It paid to get booted, didn't it. AFA Bard : Join us NEXT week when ELAINE 100 presents MULTIPLE INTELLIGENCES! Same AOL time, Same AOL channel! SandyE : Hey....Thanks all! AFA Bard : Have a safe & happy week- all! SandyE : Elaine---I'm looking forward to your chat! Elaine 100 : I'll need your help... SandyE : Have a great week all--and HAPPY VALENTINE'S DAY! AFA Bard : Happy Valentine's Day!! SandyE : We'll all be here--same time, same place Elaine 100 : Bye everyone. AFA Bard : Bye Elaine-- see ya NEXT week! :) SandyE : 'nite all- HankinsJ : No agreement on outcome based edu here. It is a significant step backward, and socialistic. Martine536 : Hi! I guess I'm REALLY early! AFA Bard : One in every crowd! :) Martine.. :) Martine536 : LOL AFA Bard : We welcome you anytime! Well folks.. off to post the log of tonight's chat! G'night! Thanks again for attending!