Date: 3/27/94 Start Time: 7:59:50 PM End Time: 9:04:53 PM Number of participants: 19 Participants included: AFA Bard, ApTec, BCS Frank, ElderMal, GA JANE, Gerk n Goo, KNYLES, MaristR, MaryEz, SandyE AFA Bard : Elder-- we're just about to launch into a big-time discussion of HYPERMEDIA. ;) ElderMal : Oooh! ElderMal : Multimedia squared? AFA Bard : Cubed! ;) ElderMal : Gasp! MaryEz : Has anyone used the new Hypercard? AFA Bard : Indeed! ElderMal : Sensory overload! What would be an example? AFA Bard : OK-- hang on for a second, folks... let me get a commercial & opening in here! : SandyE : Mary, what is that 2.2? MaryEz : Can you compare it to HyperStudio? KNYLES : What seems to be the package of choice on the Mac? AFA Bard : Welcome to the AED forum! Our topic tonight is HYPERMEDIA! Unfortunately, our special guest is in TORNADO country and couldn't get a free line in this evening- but he'll be back later on next month for sure! So... it's up to US! ElderMal : So, who can give me an example of hypermedia... AFA Bard : Also.. remember that I'll award a FREE HOUR to a lucky attendee at the end of this hour. To win- just be present at the end of the chat! SandyE : Yeah, but is it REALLY color? or pseudo color? MaristR : I hope the storms keep going north of us. SandyE : Me too, Rog, I heard there was one in Athens ElderMal : I'm brand-new user today so who can tell me what is hypermedia? AFA Bard : Elder-- hypermedia has lots of definitions. Typically, it's a combination of interactive SandyE : Hum, and example of hypermedia? Text, pictures and sound all rolled into one document...how's that? AFA Bard : text, graphics and sound. Some examples you might be familiar with are information kiosks found in ElderMal : So whats different between hyper and multi media? SandyE : Elder--First day! Congrats and welcome ElderMal : Or are they just both buzzwords? AFA Bard : airports and supermarkets. Nowadays, using powerful programs like HYPERSTUDIO (MAC & A2), HyperCard (Mac) and others, kids do it! ElderMal : Sandy-- Thank you.. Good to be here.. MaristR : We live in North Cobb just south of Cherokee. They've been going north through Carterville. AFA Bard : Multimedia generally involves videodisc players and additional equipment. The definitions are admittedly blurry nowadays, though. ElderMal : But wait! They say, I use multimedia here, with sound card, and CD-rom, on an IBm... SandyE : What a GREAT question, Elder...I've never thought about the difference till just now! ElderMal : The lines are a little fuzzy, eh? I've just never heard the term before.. MaristR : Elder, it's all multimedia if you use more than one media on your machine. AFA Bard : Indeed! A hypermedia program for DOS is Linkway Live- heard of it? ElderMal : Hmmm. No. ... Whats it do? SandyE : Here's something to muddy the waters, I think of kids producing Hypermedia and teachers using multimedia AFA Bard : LinkWay Live, like it's predecessor on the Mac/A2 side HyperCard/HyperStudio, allows kids to take SandyE : I don't think that's really right, but that's what I think AFA Bard : and LINK ideas together via on screen BUTTONS or "hypertext" (hot-linked words/phrases). The result is a rich, interactive environment throughout which folks might explore. ElderMal : Ah! I've seen such things! Business proposal generators, hooked to soundcards.. Nifty.. Designing it is kinda like a flowchart that goes in every direction. MaryEz : Sandy, SOME teachers use multimedia. Some are still using film strip projectors with tape recorders. I suppose that is multimedia! ElderMal : I know MY teachers still are SandyE : Oh how true Mary MaristR : Is using different colored markers on a white board considered multimedia? ElderMal : So many wasted resources in schools.. MaryEz : Only if the record player is on, Roger! SandyE : Only if you use TWO kinds of markers/not colors, Roger AFA Bard : Is a pencil technology, Roger? ;) ElderMal : Using marker and chalk would be... AFA Bard : Welcome ApTec! ApTec : Hi, guys...what's the topic? MaristR : It depends on if the pencil is a mechanical pencil. AFA Bard : Hiya Frank! We're chatting about the definition of Hypermedia vs multimedia-- any ideas Frank or ApTec? MaryEz : Frank, Welcome, How''s Bostong? Boston, that is! SandyE : Norma--are you on your 660AV? I'm GREEN! ApTec : Oh goody...I just got a new Quadra and am learning all I can about multimedia...I listen alot and... BCS Frank : Boston's enjoying the first breath of Spring, Hi, y'all. :) ApTec : share the little I know. AFA Bard : Go for it ApTec! ApTec : Sandy, how did you know I have a 660 AV? BCS Frank : Sure... Hypermedia has more Hype. :) SandyE : Norma-I can see it! Just kidding, I'm just very quick with the "Get Info" button on my screen. ApTec : What do you have, Sandy? SandyE : Sorry-just curious! I have an LCIII, much used, much loved ElderMal : I saw that too, Quadra, SWEET! ApTec : Don't be sorry...I just thought you were clairvoyent (spelling)...need spellcheck. SandyE : With a 160 meg hard drive that is almost full. Isn't that criminal? ElderMal : Only when you have 170 megs of stuff ... BCS Frank : What? No housekeeping, no o f AFA Bard : BCS Frank-- do you see hypermedia/multimedia as a lot of marketing hooey???? BCS Frank : fline archiving? ApTec : It's amazing how fast those things fill up...I just spent the PM trashing unnecessary stuff. AFA Bard : (Welcome marilyn!) BCS Frank : akkk..no Hyper/multimedia is the tip of the SandyE : Frank, fline archinving? MaryEz : LOL BCS Frank : iceberg, the beginning of a new kind of consciousness SandyE : archinving=archiving ApTec : Sandy, do you have good tech at your school? BCS Frank : we can only dimmly see. AFA Bard : So, Frank, it's the TIP of the hooey iceburg, huh? ApTec : I have a good computer at home, but am writing grants to try to get good stuff at school. SandyE : Define 'good tech'. Two years ago we had one Mac. Now we have about 40 and kids that know how to BCS Frank : Wekk, the -marketing- is mega-fluff, but the substance is SandyE : use them and fight to get into the lab. ElderMal : We have good stuff at school, but no one is allowed to use it.. BCS Frank : far more radical than the purveyors dream. SandyE : I'm really pleased with the progress--long way to go, thought AFA Bard : Agreed, Frank. It's truly a new way of linking knowledge. ApTec : Hey you guys, I just got a CD-ROM of Wild Places...says I can create exciting school... ElderMal : --Frank.. Which parts? Quelle Substance? MaryEz : By the way, has anyone any experience with Success Maker by CCC, a multimedia learning system? AFA Bard : What do you mean Elder?? ApTec : reports and stuff. Any of you guys know how to do that? what do I need? BCS Frank : Which parts of what? ElderMal : Only Independent study students are allowed to use the 20 computer media lab. There are 12 independent study students. They use it ONE perod a day... Sigh. AFA Bard : HUH!?! Why, Elder? What grade level(s)? SandyE : That's a shame, Elder. I've had such success with special ed kids. They really take to the Mac AFA Bard : (Mine too, Roger) ApTec : Students use it, but staff can't...Elder, are you staff? ElderMal : --Frank Hypermedia. The actual substance is mind-boggling. Any specifics in mind? AFA Bard : (Welcome Mary Jane!! We're chatting about Hypermedia!) ElderMal : No, student, locked out of computer resources that should be mine! BCS Frank : Wht I have in mind is an information form beyond that of the ApTec : Hey elder...sounds like you just need to exert some clout and get in there. SandyE : My experience has been that sometimes the kids lead and the teachers follow GA Jane! How are you! AFA Bard : Frank-- is it the KNOWLEDGE NAVIGATOR thing? BCS Frank : book or tape.... non-linear. We have little idea how to ElderMal : Heheheh, I have. And NEXT year, when I graduate, they WILL have access... BCS Frank : deal with "data-soup" open in every direction. ApTec : Anyone here know anything about Hyperstudio? ElderMal : Hmm, you see computers as a step in the development of non-linear thinking? BCS Frank : I've used HyperStudio-GS. KNYLES : Iwhat about hyperstudio AFA Bard : Lots of HS users in here, Norma! MaryEz : Yes, I have used it and I love it. Especially the Mac version. ApTec : Great...what sorts of things do you do with it Frank? GA JANE : Hello everyone SandyE : I love hyperstudio. The kids are starting to create some fantastic stacks. BCS Frank : Sure, ElderMal... just as the printed book opened ElderMal : Is non-linear thinking desirable? I mean, there are benefits to linear deduction as well.. BCS Frank : new levels of consciousness beyond that of the handwritten manuscript. MaryEz : ? : ? : ? AFA Bard : Mary? BCS Frank : Desirable? I sure hope so... but desirable or not it's coming. KNYLES : MaryEz please email regarding your experience with the Mac versiopn we have used GS MaryEz : Has anybody any info on Success Maker by CCC, billed as a multimedia learning system. They are ElderMal : Hmmm. Valid point. But perhaps, with such a fine focus on particular topics that Hypermedia MaryEz : making a presentation tomorrow at the Superintendent's office. He seems to think it ElderMal : grants, might a larger concept.issue be missed? MaryEz : might be the answer to all our problems. AFA Bard : Mary, I've seen it at conferences and at a briefing CCC had here in Atlanta. You could do better putting together your own resources. It's EXPENSIVE and not as flexible as I'd like. (But ElderMal : i.e., learn the process of atom bomb creation, learn nothing on radiation sickness AFA Bard : then, I'm somewhat against the philosophy of a turn-key curriculum delivered by computer anyway.) MaryEz : I have put question out on EDTECH on Internet. No good reviews. BCS Frank : ElderMal : Ok, sure.. My stuffs all theory anyway... AFA Bard : You should know, Mary, that there's no conclusive evidence to support gains through ILS systems. BCS Frank : Mary, are they presenting CCC as a finished system or as another tool? :) MaristR : Speaking of internet, the internet gopher is up and running on AOL. MaryEz : Just looking for some info from people in the know and not selling me something. Success Maker AFA Bard : (Keyword: Gopher, Roger) MaryEz : is supposed to be the answer in learning systems. ElderMal : Gopher? Hmmm A feature I haven't seen yet.. MaryEz : OK that's all. Thanks for the time. Go ahead. SandyE : Mary, I'm confused. How is this Success Maker supposed to work? AFA Bard : Some of the ILS systems offer hypermedia programs. Anyone else out there had any experience with Success Maker? BCS Frank : Haven't seen it, but very susspicious of "the answer." I'd rather think SandyE : Is is Mac? BCS Frank : that you should buy open-ended tools. ApTec : Who puts out Success Maker? ApTec : Cost? AFA Bard : (Computer Curriculum Corporation) MaryEz : Apparently if they give you grant, you can not use any third party software. I will know more ElderMal : Hmmm. We have nothing like that in our school system. We use next to no computers, for, of all things, typing lessons. ApTec : Mary, could you e-mail me with more info. I'd like to know what it does, etc. MaryEz : tomorrow. I know one school paid $3000 per work station of Mac 575 with cdrom. Chapter I money. ApTec : $3000 per station...yikes!!! AFA Bard : Ask about support & updates, Mary. Sometimes there are "add-ons". SandyE : $3000 per station? ElderMal : Wow! PowerPC 601 price... SandyE : Good GRIEF! KNYLES : Most schools are underuseing what they have... SandyE : Amen, Knyles! AFA Bard : Welcome, Jarman! We're chatting about Hypermedia (and other things!) BCS Frank : Akkk! A restriction against 3rd party stuff... Have nothing nice to say. ApTec : At that price, any use would be underusing!! ElderMal : Or misusing... AFA Bard : Anyone out there compared HyperCard 2.2 with HyperStudio??? KNYLES : I know one where they cant purchase software for a IIE because it was bought to do a specific thing .. MaristR : Elder, what do you use to teach keyboarding? ApTec : I have the same question AFA Bard. KNYLES : which they no longer do. ElderMal : Old IBM PS/1's... Only PC's in school. ApTec : I am putting together a Tech Center for a new High School. Told Hyperstudio is a must! Want to know why? ElderMal : The other stuff is off an ancient 70's mainframe that is dying... MaryEz : Why? AFA Bard : Sandy-- haven't you had experience with HyperStudio? MaristR : Elder, what program are you using? MaryEz : I did a great presentation for our BOE using HS. ElderMal : For typing? heheheheh DOS edit. Type lessons out of a book. SandyE : Yes, though not as much as Mary, I think...kids really take to it, much more than Hypercard ApTec : Hey Sandy, if you have used HS, I would love to talk to you about it. SandyE : Anytime, Ap... AFA Bard : Talk NOW Aptec- it's our TOPIC!!! ApTec : I'll e-mail you. BCS Frank : MaristR : DOS edit? You mean the text editor that comes with DOS? ElderMal : Yup. ITs an expensive typewriter. ApTec : Better yet...I forgot that it was the topic. AFA Bard : LOL! MaristR : I'll say. ApTec : Sandy, can you give some specific examples of things that you have done with HS? MaristR : We use a program called keyboard teacher. SandyE : OK...I started with Hypercard and liked it, but sometimes got frustrated writing scripts etc ElderMal : A waste... Could do other things, (get aol acct's learn stuff ) MaryEz : You can open MSWorks graphs in HS as backgrounds and color them. Look great! SandyE : Not to mention a nasty virus that I won't discuss that attacked my Hypercards ApTec : A virus? AFA Bard : Sandy! ElderMal : Thats why the real computers aren't open to most students, fear of virii/hacking... ApTec : I would hate to do all of that work and then lose it all....ugh. SandyE : Yes, Ap, the Merry Xmas virus...SAM new definitions has stopped it, but it was a bear fairly innocuous, but annoying! ApTec : I teach foreign language and need hypercard's audio capabilities to build "talking" stacks. AFA Bard : (Mary-- hang onto that "you can open MSWorks in HS" thing-- let's get back to that later!) SandyE : As for HyperStudio, it's color and looks very much like HyperCard, so the transition was easy KNYLES : For an idea of whats out there take a look at some of the Hyperstudio GS stacks. I think the Mac ... ApTec : Can you make good talking stacks with HS? KNYLES : version can read them. SandyE : Kids seem to intuitively understand what to do once I show them ElderMal : Hmm, I've never seen foreign language taught with computer... ApTec : When they say GS...do they mean the old Apple IIgs? I have one that I never turn on anymore. SandyE : I've never seen the Mac read a GS HS stack...can that be done? ElderMal : How does it work? KNYLES : yrd I have heard trhat they work. ApTec : I use Hypercard to make stacks with buttons attached to sounds (words) that I record. The students click the button on a picture and hear the word for that picture in Spanish. AFA Bard : Yes, Sandy.. there's a utility in the Macintosh Hypermedia forum (Keyword: MHC) that does that. SandyE : Once I show kids a couple of cards and some buttons and transitions, they take off. ElderMal : Hmmm...Good results? ApTec : I also have students make their own Hypercard vocabulary stacks....then the class rotates and ElderMal : Cool... ApTec : plays each other's stacks...its fun. KNYLES : Earky accounts that I heard suggested that it could but you first had to move it to a mac usein File.. BCS Frank : There are some good basic Russian HS-GS stacks in AED... they might ApTec : They can even draw their own pictures for the vocab words and of course the words are recorded in BCS Frank : be instructive. ApTec : their own voices...Could I do something like that with Hyperstudio...only in color? KNYLES : Exchange. but i havent tried because I dont have the macversion yet. ElderMal : Sounds like a great idea. AFA Bard : We have a local private school that uses HyperCard gs/Mac for senior research projects. Some SandyE : Absolutely, ApTec! AFA Bard : stunning results! MaristR : Which one? ApTec : Cool...back to my ? about GS...is it IIgs? SandyE : Yes, GS is Apple IIGS AFA Bard : Lovett, Roger. ApTec : I never knew that you could do things like that on the good old GS...I'll have to get mine out of moth balls. Where can I still get the software? MaristR : I haven't been to Lovett in a while. AFA Bard : You can download a demo copy of HyperStudio GS from our STUDIOWARE forum right here in AED! SandyE : I think you may need to upgrade the memory on a vanilla GS to run HyperStudio, right Bard? KNYLES : On the GS version its fairly easy to put stacks on video. How easy is it on mac version? BCS Frank : Heck yoi can run HyperCArd-GS too, and in color, not like the B & W Mac HC. ApTec : Oh yes...now, can I download it to my mac and then use it on the IIgs? AFA Bard : Yes, Sandy-- to at least a couple of megs for best results. Yes, ApTec- use APPLE FILE EXCHANGE to translate the file you download to a GS formatted diskette. ApTec : I am not connected to AOL on the IIgs. Apple File Exchange? BCS Frank : HS-GS will run on bare bones IIGS/ROM2, ROM 1 needs at least .5 meg added. ApTec : Gee I feel like a dummy. AFA Bard : It's a utility found on your SYSTEM TOOLS diskette (MAC) BCS Frank : More memory is better of course. Ahh, ROM 3, not ROM2. ApTec : We have a small IIe lab at school. If I make stuff with Hyperstudio on a IIgs...can it be used on IIe AFA Bard : Frank-- wanna tell her how to tell the difference? BCS Frank : No, IIe won't run HS... use Tutortech instead. KNYLES : I am not sure File Exchange is still packaged with all new macs Depending on model you might need tro consayult a deasler ApTec : How did you guys every get to know all of this stuff. I've been using computers since 19?? and MaryEz : Yes, TutorTech is great because it will work on 128K Apple IIe's. ApTec : still all of this is new to me. AFA Bard : A demo of TutorTech is also available- path: AED/COMPANY SUPPORT/TUTOR TECH. ElderMal : Well, what other Hypermedia applicationsa re there? BCS Frank : Easiest way with IIGS running System 6 is to read Mac disks and KNYLES : Apte no it cannot thew GS version is specific to that machine SandyE : Hang in there, ApTec, this is the place to learn and ask and learn BCS Frank : do the moving with the IIGS... it can read Mac 800K disks. ElderMal : Geez... BCS Frank : ApTec.... easy... I make more mistakes. :) SandyE : REALLY? ElderMal : Requiem Aeternam KNYLES : If you have superdrive. It can also read High density SandyE : My screen flickers a bit...anyone else see that with the new version of AOL? BCS Frank : KNYES is right, with SuperDrive and SuperDRive card. ElderMal : Hmmm.. No, what kinda computer ou running it on Sandy? ApTec : Sometimes...but the worst thing is that I get cut off alot. AFA Bard : No problem here, Sandy. :) KNYLES : sometimes on LC ii MaristR : Most of the storms have gone north of us in the mountians. MaryEz : No, Sandy, not on the IIsi SandyE : LCIII, Elder ApTec : I really like having 9600 baud tho....download in a flash. ElderMal : Hmmmm... AFA Bard : OK folks... please stop typing! It's time to award the FREE ONLINE HOUR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! : ElderMal : Love the 9600! So sweet! And no surcharge! ApTec : Free hour...goody, goody. AFA Bard : First... a commercial.......... ElderMal : ? AFA Bard : Join us every Sunday evening from 8-9 ET for another lively chat in AED! Next week there will BCS Frank : WoW! Just like Prodigy! :) ApTec : Hey Bard, are you trying to kill us with suspense? AFA Bard : be NO chat due to the Easter holiday. ElderMal : Multimedia˛ AFA Bard : The next chat will be held on April 10 (Sunday) and out topic will be one near and dear to all of us.. ElderMal : AFA Bard : "Raising Money for Technology"!!! Drop by and lend us your expertise! AFA Bard : Now, the free hour! The "secret word" tonight was "TEACH"- first one to say it was... MaristR : I have a TV right by my computer in my office. SandyE : Oh boy, ideas for $$$$$$$$$ Love it! AFA Bard : KNYLES! You're the WINNER!!!!!!!!!!!! Let's have a round of applause for KNYLES!! SandyE : Way to go, KNYLES!!! ElderMal : OOps! Go Knyles! ApTec : Go Knyles!!! BCS Frank : Way to go, KNYLES!!!!! MaristR : We are writing a proposal for new computers. MaryEz : {}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{} *Fanfare* GA JANE : Congrats! ElderMal : Anyways, LAter, guys! MaristR : WTG Knyles. ApTec : Hey MaristR, Can I talk to you bout that? AFA Bard : A FREE HOUR will be credited to your account within 72 hours, Knyles! To everyone else--- THANK YOU for attending tonight's chat! ApTec : Hey Knyles, what do you TEACH? AFA Bard : Have a wonderful Easter/Winter break! MaristR : Yes, but I don't want to stay on long. It's starting to lightning here. KNYLES : thanks guys. Math and Science BCS Frank : Hope you all have surge protectors, disks backed up. AFA Bard : A complete LOG of this chat will be posted tomorrow in the AED New files forum! Be sure to check the HYPERSTUDIO forum online! AFA Bard : G'night! Be safe, Roger!