File: Chat Log 2/6/93 Date: 2/6/93 Start Time: 7:58:15 PM End Time: 9:08:38 PM Number of participants: 16 Participants: AFA Bard, AFC Frank, BAMABELL, BobFrost, BOBODDO, Elaine 100, IESCoordin, MaristR, MaryEz, MAX FRIS, ROBLOW, SandyE, Tillema, Wadkin, Bouyy, Triscuit AFA Bard The topic tonight is exciting- we're gonna talk about the THREE new machines Apple's just released! AFA Bard : Welcome Boboddo! We'll get started with our chat in just a moment- the topic is NEW ED. from Apple! AFA Bard : Welcome! We'll get started with our chat in just a moment- the topic is NEW ED. MACHINES from Apple! Welcome Bob, Wadkin! MaryEz : She presented at the Connecticut Educational Media Assn. conference but I didn't know it so I didn't go. MaryEz : Hi, Bob, Warmer in Anchorage than Connecticut! Wadkin : Hello from Maryland AFA Bard : It's about 52 here in Atlanta. :) BobFrost : Was warmenr here one day this week than Miami, FL!! MaryEz : Hello, Wadkin. Welcome. AFA Bard : Wow, Bob! Did ya get your swimsuits on? MaryEz : Are the pussy willows blooming in Anchorage? BobFrost : It's terrible, no snow :(- MaryEz : We have a small glacier in our yard! BobFrost : Yes, MaryEz, even some tree buds coming out. It'll kill them. MaryEz : It's evaporating rather than melting. AFA Bard : OK folks... time to begin! : Tonight's topic is NEW EDUCATIONAL HARDWARE from Apple Computer. Remember, at the end of this conference, we'll reward one lucky attendee with a FREE ONLINE HOUR just for saying the "secret word" in context. That means you've got to speak up and let us know what you think as the topic unfolds. : BobFrost : Great, now that I've got LCIIIs coming there are new machines coming out. MaryEz : I hope there has been software developed for these new Macs. That's life with Apple, Bob! AFA Bard : Basically, Apple Computer chose the Florida Ed. Technology Conference, held this weekend, for the announcement of THREE new configurations for the popular LC line. They're working to position BobFrost : We're lucky. We almost ordered Color Classics when they were new. AFA Bard : computers in anticipation of the release this summer of the PowerMac (powerPC) technologies. Nope, Rob. We're chatting about new Apple hardware- you might try the Apple Graphics Forum- keyword: AGR. :) ROBLOW : Thanks Bard See Ya... BOBODDO : In Macworld they said that the LC would not be able to be upgraded with the new chip AFA Bard : First- remember that right now the LC IIs are no longer shipping- just the LCIII and the new(er) LC520 configuration. Apple tells me that the numbering system for LC's (the 400 and 500 designation) refers to FORM FACTOR (the way the box looks). 400 means the Mac is modular (in pieces) and the 500 series is all-in-one (the monitor is a part of the CPU). The numbering system then tells the buyer BOBODDO : Will these have CDROM AFA Bard : what kind of box the mac comes in , the additional digits, like the "20" in LC 520 refer, in some unknown way (ha!) to the processor speed. The three new machines announced yesterday are: The Macintosh LC475, the Macintosh LC550 and the Macintosh LC 575. The 475 is a modular Mac (with optional CD-ROM) that zips along at 33Mhz and has an "040" processor MaryEz : I thought I had seen the LC475 in recent price lists from Apple. AFA Bard : on board. The LC550 is an all-in-one Mac that has a 25Mhz 030 chip onboard- a bit faster than the LC520. The LC575 is an all-in-one speed demon- zipping along at 33Mhz (040 processor). In addition to the new machines, Apple is installing a new configuration of CD-ROM. Instead of the caddy-based 300 speed CD's- they're moving to a new "caddyless" drawer technology. The drawer is VERY sturdy and appears to be able to stand the "kid test". Just think- no more fumbling for CD caddies! MaryEz : What about software, Bard? That's the problem with the Quadra 660AV. None of our software will work. AFA Bard : While Apple hasn't gone on record (ala Macworld) with upgrades for the LCs aforementioned to the BOBODDO : Is it possible and worth it to upgrade a LCIII to one of these new machines?? AFA Bard : new PowerMac technology- it looks like THIRD PARTIES like Daystar will do that for them. :) Whew! (taking a breath.) SandyE : Hi Roger AFA Bard : Now the questions-- Boboddo- the LCIII is still a TERRIFIC machine (as is the LC II), the speed MaristR : Hey MaryEz : What is your advice re: software? What would be a good all purpose ala ClarisWorks? SandyE : Did you have as much trouble as I did getting on? AFA Bard : difference, IMNO, isn't worth the upgrade. (Sandy- it took me 20 minutes to get signed on!) MaristR : Sandy, not tonight. Last week was a bear. AFA Bard : So.. what do ya'll think- where do the 475, 550 and 575 fit? Elaine 100 : What will happen with the Centris line? MAX FRIS : It's nice to see you again Bard and Sandy. Remember me? AFA Bard : Hi Max, we're chatting about three new Mac LC configuration & new CD technology just released from Apple. :) The Centris line is gone. They're putting Quadra stickers on all those now. :) MAX FRIS : Oh well then...I don't understand Wadkin : I'd like to know how schools can keep pace with the speed of technological advances. AFA Bard : Great question- anyone got a thought on that one? Elaine 100 : Seems like schools will always be behind the times. MaristR : How can anyone keep pace. BOBODDO : If they keep changing names I believe people will become confused MAX FRIS : I already am. Wadkin : I'm stil working with Apple IIe's Elaine 100 : I'm already comfused. SandyE : Industry is not really able to keep pace that much either... MAX FRIS : Elaine, let's stick together. AFA Bard : Bob- you may be right- there are now Performas, LC's, Quadras- the PowerMac (powerpc) is also right Elaine 100 : See can't even spell the word. AFA Bard : around the corner. :) MaryEz : I don't even try anymore. Trying to write a budget for technology now for 94/95 is impossible with the changes that Apple makes. Elaine 100 : Did anyone get to go to the Technology Conference in Tampa last week? AFA Bard : That's where these announcements originated, Elaine. :) BOBODDO : I'm on a technology committe now and it's impossible to try to educate people about the uses SandyE : I was there vicariously with my friend Cathie Brett (aka teleteach) BOBODDO : of these new machines MaryEz : Bard, what about SOFTWARE????? AFA Bard : What kinds of compatibility problems are you having with your AV machines, Mary? BOBODDO : I bet you no one knows the answer to that yet, Mary Elaine 100 : I think our school needs to hire a technology specialist. Too much to know... MaryEz : MSWorks version 2e will not work. That is our major piece of software at present. AFA Bard : Isn't that YOU, Elaine? BobFrost : Your school will actually hire one, Elaine. MaristR : We are looking for an AP teacher and a network technician for next year. AFA Bard : Bye Max- thanks for coming! Remember folks, a FREE HOUR will be awarded at the end of the chat! ** Elaine 100 : Not me. I'm a beginner in this field. BobFrost : My school is cutting me out of my half-time job as it is. Elaine 100 : Our media specialist is taking on this role. AFA Bard : Really Bob? Who's gonna do all the things people once took for granted? Elaine 100 : She is ready to give it up though. BOBODDO : If we want to get some of the new technology availble we have to know about this stuff BobFrost : They expect me to do it on my "free" time! AFA Bard : (Mary- MSWorks 3.0 Works with the 660AV) BobFrost : My biggest problem is I don't know how to say NO. AFA Bard : LOL! Hear that Roger and Sandy- ya'll know about the "do it in your free time" syndrome, don't you? BOBODDO : we all know about that!!! MaristR : Especially at private schools. Elaine 100 : That's for sure. AFA Bard : So what's the answer? BobFrost : I'm afraid if I say it then the kids will suffer the most. MaryEz : Free time! What is that? I am now giving lessons two the Asst. Super, Principal and a secretary in my planning periods. Elaine 100 : Just came off of a week's workshop and then went to a convention this weekend. AFA Bard : And of course they're paying you extra for that, Mary? Elaine 100 : This is my free time now, on AOL but it's not even free. BobFrost : A teacher's free time is an oxymoron MaryEz : Of course. Next week I do an Inservice w/o pay because it is in conflict of interest since I am already being paid for the day. AFA Bard : What will it take for folks to wake up and see that there must be a technology leader in the school? MaryEz : "Conflict of Interest" is a favorite saying in my district. BOBODDO : I think many administrators are slowly waking up AFA Bard : What was the wakeup call, Bob? Elaine 100 : I'm awake. We need one in our schools. MaryEz : From now on if I want to attend a workshop out of district, I have to pay for my own sub. MaristR : I even have teachers come into my office during lunchtime for help. BOBODDO : I think they realize how behind schools are as far as technology goes Elaine 100 : Mary, change districts. AFA Bard : Boboddo- it it the hardware they're lacking, or the infrastructure that supports it (people, staff development, etc.?) MaryEz : Too old. Only 2 years to retirement. If they offer an early incentive this year, I will take it. AFA Bard : (Welcome Tillema- we're discussing the need for personnel at schools to support new technologies) Elaine 100 : Come to FL. They pay everything except teachers salaries. We still don't have a contract. Tillema : what type of computers are in your schools? BOBODDO : I really think that they do not have people who can use the technology or want to. AFA Bard : boboddo- I heard about a school district in California in 1990 that offered a staff development "summer camp" for teachers. At the end of the conference, instead of a stipend check, each MaristR : Elaine, in a private school you only get a early contract. BobFrost : We have lots of computers in our school. The problem is in teaching the AFA Bard : teacher got a labtop Powerbook computer. Such a deal! BobFrost : teachers to use them appropriately. Tillema : Right now I am student teaching and I will be looking for a job in Sept. I'm looking at moving out Elaine 100 : Bob are teachers afraid of the technology? Tillema : WA state, does anyone have any ideas? MaristR : Tillema, what type of job are looking for? Elaine 100 : Tillema what is your field? BOBODDO : I think thats great, however, many teachers feel safe now and using technology represents a risk they do not want to take BobFrost : Not just that. Learning to use the tech. on "free" time doesn't appeal AFA Bard : A risk, Boboddo? How so? Tillema : I am looking at the primary grades - my major is in Reading. Elaine 100 : Doesn't your school offer inservice to the teachers? Tillema, I am also a Reading specialits now Guidance Counselor. MaristR : Tillema, we are 7th - 12th. BobFrost : Elaine, not much as far as tech. goes. They're expected to know it, I guess. Elaine 100 : specialist that is. Tillema : We don't have many job interview on our campus. We are to look for our own school and they will send BOBODDO : They are very comfortable not using technology now. Changing things that they have done for 10 or Tillema : infromation for us. BOBODDO : 15 years represents a risk AFA Bard : (Welcome Mark! We're chatting about the need for technology personnel) MaristR : Elaine, who does the student selection for courses in your school for the up coming year? Elaine 100 : How sad, to expect people to go into change without any training. IESCoordin : :) I am for that. BobFrost : I agree Boboddo. Why take risks when you don't have to is OK for some. AFA Bard : Is the problem that they don't know how to use the computer or that they don't have a curriculum that Tillema : Are any of the schools hiring one person to come and teach the teachers about the computers? AFA Bard : encourages it? Elaine 100 : Administration MaristR : Elaine, we are in the middle of course selection for next year, and the homeroom teachers do it. BOBODDO : I think it is both. A lot of schools will offer training but it is in the summer of after school BobFrost : I believe that it's mostly knowing how to choose appropriate software. For the curricula BOBODDO : and some teachers do not want to do it then Elaine 100 : How do homeroom teachers plan that? Tillema : Will the schools help pay for a teacher to go back to school and get some training? MaristR : We help the students select their classes for next year. AFA Bard : BobF- when do teachers have time and access to do that? (software selection) Elaine 100 : Tillema, NO, NO, NO AFA Bard : Tillema- here it's only for "continuing ed. credits" and some of those pay you, some you pay for. Tillema : How about asking for a parent who knows computers to help you learn and pick out software? MaristR : Our school pays 1/2 tution and will fund special summer projects. Elaine 100 : What is class selection based on? Grades, Test Scores, interests? BOBODDO : This is going to sound weird but I have my students teach me how to use a lot of the software. AFA Bard : Tillema-- aha! What do you mean by "knows computers?" BobFrost : As BobO. says, after school and on their own MaristR : Since we are a college prep school. the students don't have much room for electives. Tillema : Someone who works with computers all the time. My brother is a computer engineer and is a lot of help Elaine 100 : Boboddo, not weird at all. The kids pick it up easily and are great teachers too. MaristR : The math and english departments determine where a student should be placed according to AFA Bard : Tillema- is a computer engineer qualified to make education recommendations? I wonder. MaristR : test and performance. BobFrost : Then there is always the problem of what to teach; computer tech. or Tillema : If they are interested in helping out they will look around and find things that are appropriate. BobFrost : how to use the computers to help with existing courses. Elaine 100 : How high are the test scores of your students in the prep courses? MaristR : Bard, we just went through that problem with a computer person trying to tell us what was best educationally. AFA Bard : Us too, Roger. It's a very sticky situation. I believe it's easier to teach a TEACHER about the Tillema : I guess that it really depends on the persons personality that you would work with. They would be the AFA Bard : technical side of comptuers than to teach a technician the educational side. :) Tillema : computer specialist and you are the teacher. BOBODDO : We have formed a committe of a specialist a teacher and an administrator and it works pretty well AFA Bard : (Welcome Frank & David! We're chatting about computer coordinators and support for technology) AFC Frank : Good topic. I think I'll stay and watch. :) MaristR : Our guy couldn't understand why we were wasting time on our multimedia station. AFA Bard : bobO, what type of decisions are made by the committee? BOBODDO : Where we are to go in the future. How the money ear marked for technology will be spent AFA Bard : (* Remember- a FREE ONLINE hour will be awarded at chat's end! *) Elaine 100 : Not many people, chances are good. MaryEz : Marist, why? BobFrost : We've still got Board of Ed. members who consider computers "frills" MaristR : He felt no one would use it. BobFrost : it's tough to get anything with that attitude AFA Bard : bobF- is it because none of the software is an integral part of the curriculum? AFC Frank : You have to change the attitude. :) Elaine 100 : Ed members need to come back into the classroom. AFA Bard : Frank- got any ideas how to do that? AFC Frank : Yep. BOBODDO : I think in the future schools will need not only a curriculum person but also a tech person who can AFC Frank : I've seen it done. MaryEz : I have a station with Laser disc player, VCR, Computer, music keyboards, CD Player, and tape player BobFrost : I believe that they are computerphobes themselves. BOBODDO : fix the machines MaryEz : which we use all the time. AFA Bard : Give, Frank!! TELL!!!! AFC Frank : But it took one TREMENDOUS amount of work by ONE VERY dedicated teacher. MaryEz : All 5th graders do commercials using all that equipment. MaristR : We got our multimedia station over the summer, and it's still not set up. AFA Bard : What,Roger? Why? AFC Frank : I will, but it will take a few minutes. MaristR : Because the technician put it as a low prority. He had more "important" projects. AFA Bard : Frank- would you be willing to be a "special guest" to discuss that at a chat early next month? :) BobFrost : Mary, do all your teachers buy into that project or do some of them say MaristR : Also we had some technical problems. The hard drive on one computer was too small, and BobFrost : "it takes too much time from the rest of the work." MaristR : the IBM's wouldn't take some of the cards. AFC Frank : Probably should do it now, in generalities, Bard. Might not be able to get online next month. :) MaryEz : Bard, I could tell you about our BOE presentation which was successful too that night. AFC Frank : What Mary just said is PART of what this teacher did. :) Elaine 100 : Sandy did you get bumped? AFA Bard : OK mary & Frank- I'll sign you BOTH up for a March chat date. :) rehi Sandy! MaryEz : Just let me know!! SandyE : rehi... AFC Frank : I might drag along some guests, Bard. :) MaristR : One was a clone and one was an IBM. AFA Bard : Excellent, Frank. I'll e-mail you with some prospective dates. :) SandyE : Yes, I got bumped...I can't wait to read the log (Bard....) AFC Frank : Guest being the Governance Council members trying to set up a NEW school in California. :) And this is one of their prime agenda items. :) AFA Bard : (It'll be posted later tonight in the AED New Files area Sandy. ;) ) Sounds great Frank! BOBODDO : How many people have networked computers in their school SandyE : Me MaryEz : One of the Professional development things our district has done is have a 3 year plan for MaristR : We have about 100. SandyE : Ethernet (thin) BobFrost : I use sneakernet WAAAAY too much Elaine 100 : Not me AFA Bard : Bob F- you said "it takes too much time from the rest of the work" is what some folks said- sounds like you have a real challenge there! MaryEz : professional development which has 3 strands which shall be completed by the end of the period. BOBODDO : Is it your classroom or the whole school?? BobFrost : They feel that computers aren't part of the regular curriculum. AFC Frank : That seems to be a "standard copout." :) The "too much time" bit.. even thought it could well be true SandyE : The Mac lab is networked, but we hope the entire school will be soon. AFA Bard : BobO- we're bring two schoolwide nets online within the next couple of months. BAMABELL : We have 10 computers in my classroom, but they are networked within the school only. MaristR : Ours is three labs and the library. MaryEz : The strands are Inclusion, curriculum integration and technology. You must pick one as a goal each yearl. Elaine 100 : Research has shown that CAI has increased literacy. BOBODDO : Is the library hooked up to the network?? AFA Bard : BamaBell-- are there that many in every classroom? MaryEz : Of course, I feel that technology is the way to accomplish all of those goals. AFA Bard : But Elaine- research is still very fuzzy on the effectiveness of CAI, isn't it? (as far as what can be measured by standardized testing-yuck!) BAMABELL : No. Each classroom has 4 student computers and 1 teacher computer and printer, but my class has double SandyE : What's CAI AFA Bard : Computer Assisted Instruction BAMABELL : because I team teach two third grades AFC Frank : Computer Assisted Instruction SandyE : OOPs, sorry Elaine 100 : Yes as far as the standardized tests scores but the attendance of students in CAI has increased, AFA Bard : BamaBell-- is the use of software integrated into your curriculum- or still viewed as an "enhancement? MaryEz : We no longer use CAI except in rare occasions. SandyE : Hi, Paul Elaine 100 : their time on task also has increased, thus better grades and self esteem. MaryEz : Application in collaborative projects is how we use computers mostly. AFA Bard : Mary- that's a growing trend. Folks seem to realize that workbooks still have a role for that. Sometimes the technology is better used for higher level activities? BAMABELL : It is used mostly as reinforcement, remediation etc.. But we integrate it ourselves into each subject. MaryEz : ScrapBook USA, publishing books, telecommunication, multimedia projects like the commercials. BOBODDO : I am working on having students create hypercard stacks in biology SandyE : Sounds really NEAT Boboddo Elaine 100 : I need to be BobO class to learn hypercard. MaryEz : Our health teacher uses ABC Aids, Human Sexuality, Substance Abuse laser discs in her classes. AFA Bard : Elaine- you've given me another topic idea-- is there interest out there for a whole chat on the merits of Computer Assisted Instruction? SandyE : Boboddo-ever tried HyperStudio? BOBODDO : Take one of the courses On-line their really good BAMABELL : I hate to jump in with another subject, but does anyone have any neat ideas for 'Drug Awareness Week'? BobFrost : Too often, I feel, we try to teach too many things and don't spend enough AFA Bard : The HyperCard courses, BobO? Elaine 100 : Great, I'll get the research papers out on CAI. BobFrost : Quality time with projects. It takes too much time (again) BOBODDO : They offer them on America-Online every 2 or 3 months. BobFrost : Not really my opinion. Just what I hear from others. Elaine 100 : The saying is less is more. MaristR : I have my students send letters to politicians using internet and AOL. Elaine 100 : Bobo how do you find out when the next course is given? I do need help. BOBODDO : You look at new course registration in I believe the education forum AFA Bard : Use keyword: TIN and you can get info there, Elaine. : : OK.. time for the FREE HOUR! : MaristR : This is like watching the lottery numbers being picked. MaryEz : BobFrost, we had a wonderful project on Internet called Travelling in the World: A Virtual Vacation AFA Bard : This has been a GREAT chat! Even though we experienced "topic shift"- we heard about three MaryEz : involving schools in 8 countries and 20 around the USA. It was super! AFA Bard : new LC-based configurations from Apple, we discussed the need for personnel and much more... BobFrost : Whats the "address" MaryEz? AFA Bard : I also got a few great topic ideas for MARCH chats- CAI, "changing attitudes about technology" and MaryEz : Send me a reminder and I will send you the info. AFA Bard : "What's new with HyperStudio" with Roger Wagner. : MaristR : MaryEz, I'd like to know more as well. BobFrost : I'm just beginning to work with the "NET" Looks like lots to learn!! AFC Frank : Hmmm... I may try to steal the HyperStudio one from you, Bard. :) WE can deal. :) AFA Bard : Our free HOUR tonight will be awarded to BOBODDO for the "secret word" UPGRADE. Congrats!!!!! Yippee! SandyE : Way to go Bob! MaryEz : {}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{} BOBODDO : Thanks a lot!! Elaine 100 : Way to go Boboddo. MaryEz : *Fanfare* MaristR : Way to go Bob. AFA Bard : Bob, your FREE HOUR will be credited within about 72 hours to your account. :) Folks- please join us each SUNDAY from 8-9 PM as we share our challenges and talk about what's up with Apple // and other educational technologies! AFC Frank : Way to Gooooo.. Boboddoooo... Hey! That's poetic! :) AFA Bard : The LOG from this conference will be posted shortly in the AED New Files library. :) MaryEz : MaristR and BobFrost and anyone else who is interested send me a reminder and I will tell you about Virtual Vacation AFA Bard : You folks are TERRIFIC! Have a great week in your schools! AFC Frank : Me too, Mary. :) Please? :) AFA Bard : Mary-- maybe THAT's a chat topic, too? BobFrost : Now does anyone know how to get this system to work faster? AFC Frank : Yep... kick off the lobby dwellers. :) Elaine 100 : Bard is getting topics galore tonight. BAMABELL : Sorry to have been the one to cause the "TOPIC SHIFT". I'm new to ED. CHAT. My apologies ! MaryEz : Sure, if you don't mind the competition from Internet. BOBODDO : Thanks alot. See you next week. AFA Bard : :) MaristR : Bard, how is the fog by you? AFA Bard : BamaBell--- no problem- shift happens. :))) very foggy here, Roger. Elaine 100 : Nite all, have a great week. MaristR : They have advisories on TV. BAMABELL : Good one, Swanee neighbor. AFA Bard : It shifted before you came in, Bamabell- but it always do. :) does--- SandyE : I was out driving about an hour ago, Roger...it was pea soup! AFA Bard : You're in Suwanee, Bamabell? SandyE : Nite Elaine, have a great week. Keep in touch BAMABELL : Nope, Douglasville. But same state. MaristR : We are near Sweat Mt. in NE Cobb and it's bad here too. AFA Bard : Aha! :) Neat. MaristR : Bamabell, do you teach there? BobFrost : Well, 5:00 and sunset here. Goodnight all see you next week. AFA Bard : Mark-- you're quiet tonight-- how's Savannah? AFC Frank : Perfectly CLEAR here! And that's unusual for the Seattle area. The country is inverted tonight. :) AFA Bard : Night to ALASKA, Bob!!! BAMABELL : Yes, in Paulding County. I team teach third grade. MaristR : Bye, Bob. IESCoordin : Wet..:) doing my 2000+ pieces of email MaristR : This turning into the All Georgia Chat. AFA Bard : I know what you mean, Mark. Between Internet and AOL- it fills almost every day. :) IESCoordin : yes :) MaristR : I teach computer applications at Marist School in Atlanta. AFA Bard : Well-- off to edit & upload the chat folks. GREAT to see you all! Let's all count the days 'till Spring Break!!!!! G'night! IESCoordin : seeyas ;)