3/14/93 8:01:23 PM Opening "Chat Log 3/14/93" for recording. AFL Gayle : BTW, our chat topic tonight is quite fitting. BYOT, Bring Your Own Topic. I AFL Gayle : guess it will be the weather tonight. ;) Ty AnnM : Are we supposed to feel sorry for these guys? Ty AnnM : Just glad it's you and not me! BobFrost : I got no support when it was -40 and blowing. AFL Gayle : No snow here. Just lots of limbs and roof pieces down, not to mention power AFL Gayle : lines. MaryEz : Friday I received a bootie from one of Iditarod musher Frank Teasley's dogs. RRJoe sent it to MaryEz : our kids. AFL Gayle : Hi, Lavonne! :) AFA Bard : But BOB, people move to Alaska BECAUSE it gets -40 with blowing snow, right? Or is it for the AFA Bard : Iditarod? BobFrost : I'll be filling out the form for Scrapbook and posting it today. Ty AnnM : You we not prepared for this storm, Ted. AFL Gayle : Speaking of Iditarod, keep up to date with the latest results in the Bering Ty AnnM : No snowballs. MaryEz : They're having it in Atlanta next winter, Bard! AFL Gayle : Bridge Library, courtesy of AFC RRJoe and Iternet. :) AFL Gayle : Hi, Cheryl! :) AFL DannyH : I would like to get some views on the what you all think of the current AFL DannyH : state of the education system AFC Tooter : And no school tomorrow. AFA Bard : LOL, Mary! Mushing down Peachtree Street.. that would be a hoot! AFL Gayle : No school tomorrow? (Sulking because so far we still have school.) MaryEz : We have an hour delay. AFC Tooter : Good question, Danny. AFL DannyH : is the education system in need of a overhaul or is it primarily society? AFA Bard : Now Danny.. THAT's a loaded question! AFL Cheryl : how much snow did you get Gayle?? AFL Gayle : Oh. Danny wants to get serious. State of the education system today. Well, AFA Bard : Is Bill Clinton logging this chat? LavonneS : No school for me :)!!!! MaryEz : SOCIETY!!!! AFL DannyH : I for one am getting tired of people bashing the system AFL Gayle : Danny, it's only fair to call upon you first to answer that question. :) BobFrost : Lots of talk about year round school up here. But what do we do if BobFrost : we want to take classes? AFL Gayle : Cheryl, if we looked in the street lights, we could maybe see a flurry or two AFL DannyH : I say the system overall is in good shape and doing its job MaryEz : There are no answers! AFC Tooter : There is no system, Danny. There are lots of systems. AFL DannyH : but society prevails into the hall of the schools AFL Gayle : last night. We had 80+ mph winds, though; no power, etc. AFL DannyH : there is a very good system inplace Ty AnnM : Good points, Ted. RAS100 : Here's a topic - Any future for the Apple II now that Macs are in the schools AFL Cheryl : Danny, what perspective are you using for that observation?? MaryEz : The system doesn't matter, it's the "effective" teachers that matter! AFL DannyH : Apple does not support the II's so their time is very limited BobFrost : Ras, I'm still using IIs and probably will be for a long time. AFL DannyH : effective teachers? LavonneS : Apple IIs will be in the classrooms for a long time even if they are buying more macs now. AFC Tooter : The system matters when it dumps 35 students in one class and fails to provide proper facilties. DUNMORE : You could disect AppleII and learn about the works AFL Gayle : Obviously, yes, I think so, RAS. We still have lots of software for them and AFL Gayle : many A2s that still work. BobFrost : They can do what I need for most projects (grades 3-5) AFC Tooter : Of course that is not ALL SYSTEMS. AFL DannyH : I have met very few teachers that would not bend over backwards to help any AFL DannyH : aspiring student AFL Gayle : No money to buy new Macs. Ty AnnM : Agreed, Lavonne. Th einstalled base is large and the new money is small. AFA Bard : Is there still CHALK in the classroom? It's a tool that was around long before the A2 and it's still AFA Bard : a useful tool! :) Ty AnnM : I have had more Macs die than IIs RAS100 : My kids love our Mac LC's and can't wait to use them AFC Tooter : I think that's true in schools where teachers have a chance to teach. That is not so in all schools. MaryEz : Our super says that "effective" teachers can handle any range of student, special to gifted, in any LavonneS : And there is lots of software already bought as well as lots available still BobFrost : We still have to teach teachers that the computer is a tool, like pencils MaryEz : numbers. BobFrost : and not something new to learn AFC Tooter : Your superintendent isn't in a class! AFL DannyH : when metal detectors become standard school hardware, them society needs to SandyE : Mary, when was the last time your "super" was in the classroom? AFL DannyH : be overhauled not the schools Ty AnnM : BTW, what is the average class size for you folks? WE are going throug a big reduction in force right Ty AnnM : now. MaryEz : Je ne sais pas! AFC Tooter : I agree that society has many problems which invade the schools, Danny, but the schools must adapt to AFC Tooter : meet society as it exists. AFA Bard : Mary... I think your question is related to Ty Anns... give me a classroom with 3 kids and I'll AFL Gayle : We have 31 children in the 1st grade. BobFrost : Next year we get to keep our staff (class size about 28) but lose 35% of MaryEz : 22 - 25 in 5th and 6th grade AFA Bard : handle all the possiblities!! DUNMORE : That is right Danny so what does our local H.S. do installs metal detectors and cuts back on classes BobFrost : support budget! LavonneS : 23 - 25 and the district is planning to hold to that for now Ty AnnM : The troublke with that Ted, is that we are expected to pick up the slack with no more money or time. AFC Tooter : I'm embarrassed and delighted to say that my average class size is about 16. AFL Gayle : One classroom, about 6 of them LD. RAS100 : I team teach with about 40 Ty AnnM : We will be going to the mid to high 20s - a big deal here. AFL Cheryl : 31 in the first grade???? That's a lot!! MaryEz : All inclusive. AFL DannyH : learning is a two way street, it takes both teachers and receptive students AFA Bard : 31 in grade one!?! Wow! AFC Tooter : That's starting to get too big, TyAnn. DUNMORE : My first class was 72 first graders in 1958. 45 did not speack english RAS100 : 31 in 1st grade is a crime! AFA Bard : Danny.. don't forget receptive/motivated/concerned parents! AFL DannyH : all the money and "effective" teachers will not solve the attitude problem AFL Cheryl : Dunmore, you can't possibly be serious!! AFL Cheryl : 1958??? MaryEz : All alone, Dunmore!!!!! Ty AnnM : I agree, but the budget is a shambles. AFL DannyH : the attitude problem arises outside of the school DUNMORE : I am serious The numbers were high all over I was 17 any warm body could teach then SandyE : 16!!!! Tooter! DUNMORE : Yes Mary I did get a different mother each day Ty AnnM : We conducted a survey a couple of years ago. The number 1 things that the parents thought that we LavonneS : Dunmore, where was that? MaryEz : We are trying to hold the line on staff cuts but it doesn't look good. It will destroy our teaming. Ty AnnM : shou;ld teach? Values! AFL DannyH : in today's world, is an "all" around education really necessary or for that AFC Tooter : Yes, Sandy. And that is averaged over years. I team teahc one class with 28. AFA Bard : (Hiya Andy!) AFL DannyH : matter even possible AFA Andy : Hi Bard! DUNMORE : In Chicago Lavone . The largest class I knew of was 90 2nd graders AFA Andy : We have 15 inches of snow and it's cold as all get out :D AFL DannyH : it is getting cold here too, I may have to close the front door soon SandyE : We teach values everytime we stand in front of a class and speak to kids...Now way around that! LavonneS : Did they learn?? AFL DannyH : very true Sandy MaryEz : In Birmingham, Alabama, Andy? AFC Tooter : What values did they want you to teach, TyAnn? AFA Andy : Yes, Mary. AFL DannyH : one can only teach, it is totally up to the student to learn Ty AnnM : lol, Danny! MaryEz : WOW! DUNMORE : Yes they did . They went to Saturday school to learn Lithuaian culture and lang. AFC Tooter : We have set up student competencies that definitely address values. Ty AnnM : That's where the problem comes in - what values? MaryEz : Things were different then, though. Parents didn't find fault with everything teachers did in those MaryEz : days. SandyE : I still find that when the kids are interested in the subject, they learn. Ty AnnM : Ther is s big stir in Iowa to not teach global ed - it is being associated with all kinds of evil thin Ty AnnM : gs! AFC Tooter : Yes, I know. A first grade teacher gave my daughter a picture of Baby Jesus to color in. AFL DannyH : values= mom, apple pie and the flag:) SandyE : Teachers have been sending their most troublesome students to the Mac lab and I have hooked Ty AnnM : Oops! DUNMORE : You bet they didn't . The teacher was THE authority. AFA Andy : And the parents taught children values then too. Not like these days. AFC Tooter : Those were her values. She forgot she was teaching in PUBLIC school. SandyE : many of them. Now they respond in the classroom in order to head to the Lab. INCENTIVE!\ Ty AnnM : Many parents here still see the US as a mainly white, Christian place. They haven't accepted the fact LavonneS : Sandy, what are you using with them? SandyE : I have a real problem with Baby Jesus to color in. What about Moses and Mohammed? MaryEz : How many of you have labs and how many spread your computers around the building? or both? Ty AnnM : that is a different place. AFL Gayle : Ours are mostly in a lab, Mary. There are 2 GSes in the media center and each AFC Tooter : I had a problem, too, Sandy. BobFrost : We have a IIe lab, IIe in each class and a Mac for each teacher. AFL Gayle : of 2 Exceptional Children's rooms has 2 //e's each. Ty AnnM : Mary, we have a lab in each building and an Apple II in each classroom. BobFrost : But most of the teachers don't use what's available. LavonneS : We spread them around the building in the classrooms, 3 classes have 5 or 6, the rest 2 SandyE : Lavonne, We have ClarisWorks, Kid Pix, Writing Center AOL many software packages. I have seen AFC Tooter : Very nice, Bob. Wish we could get that. AFA Andy : Most teachers don't know how, Bob :/ AFL Gayle : Did you ever look to see how many of those computers in the classrooms were SandyE : the most success with the special ed kids and the behavior problems. It's been most rewarding! MaryEz : Did any of you watch 60 Minutes tonight about the imigrants and political asylum? Now you know the DUNMORE : We have a lab and a lot of COWs and 1 computer for each teacher AFL Gayle : even plugged in? I've seen lots that weren't even NEAR an outlet in some AFC Tooter : How many of your schools have computer coordinators? AFL Gayle : schools. Ty AnnM : Same here, Bob. It is starting to change after 3 years of hard work! BobFrost : In the lab I teach keyboarding, word processing, a little database AFL DannyH : computers are only a tool not a substitute for teaching MaryEz : color of America isn't white, Christian. BobFrost : and right now am working with fifth grades on Slide Shop. Ty AnnM : Mine, Tooter - an dI'm it. AFL DannyH : computers are no different than a calculator or typewriter, just an aid MaryEz : We are just starting VCR Companion in 5th grade. AFC Tooter : How many of you believe that a computer coordinator is necessary if a school is to make good AFL Gayle : Schools, TooT? We don't even have a computer coordinator for the whole county. AFC Tooter : use of computers??? AFL Gayle : :( AFL DannyH : Mary, what is the color of America? Ty AnnM : Bob, want to trade some shows? Our fourth graders are working with SS now. MaryEz : multi MaryEz : plaid AFL Gayle : Better yet, Bob, upload those shows to our New Files Library. :) You, too, AFL Gayle : Ty Ann. :) AFL DannyH : what does multi have to do with the classroom if you have a predominately.. AFL DannyH : black or white or hispanic class? BobFrost : Ty AnnM, as soon as we get some done. Would I just upload them as is? SandyE : We have a Mac Lab and a IIe for exploratory class (kids are assigned to these as special classes) Ty AnnM : Good idea, except that I don't have an AppleII modem to get them uploaded. DUNMORE : I think a computer coordinator is important but getting computers into the hands of the teachers MaryEz : You didn't ask about the classroom, you asked about America. DUNMORE : is the first step SandyE : We have a Tech Coord (me!), thanks to the wonderful workings of Bard Williams! AFC Tooter : I'm really interested in an answer to the necessity of comp coord quest as I have been battling it SandyE : I feel it is MOST important to have one. I can't imagine making the teachers do double duty. AFA Bard : Absolutely, Carolyn!!! WE need those techno-evangelists in our schools! AFC Tooter : with board and parents who would rather buy extra computers. AFA Bard : (Sandy!) AFL DannyH : oh my mistake, I thought you were references America's makeup to baby Jesus in AFL DannyH : the classroom MaryEz : My classroom is lily white in most cases. I think we have 3 blacks and 4 hispanics out of 560 kids. Ty AnnM : 4 parts to the success equation: hardware/software; training; support; TIME. AFC Tooter : That mnakes their needs even more important, Mary. AFL DannyH : think of this, there is a Black Miss USA contest what if AFL DannyH : there were a White Miss USA contest? AFC Tooter : I fully agree, TyAnn. DUNMORE : Our distrit let each teacher buy on with payroll deductions no interest charged It made a big diff BobFrost : I recently started asking teachers to come to me with projects. If they BobFrost : want computer time, they can get it. BobFrost : If not, they don't use computers. AFL DannyH : are computers really a big factor in teaching? SandyE : I still have teachers who have yet to step foot in the lab. They are still afraid of the Mac. Ty AnnM : I have the time to make that %^$## laser disc player work that classroom teachers don't have. BobFrost : Some teachers don't want to deal with it. SandyE : Fortunately, their kids are coming with OTHER teachers and spreading the word. AFL DannyH : of what use is a computer to a student? SandyE : The KIDS are my best advertisement! AFA Bard : Hiya Wiggy!!! AFC Tooter : Computer CAN make a huge difference, Danny, if used properly. AFL Gayle : You can't, Sandy? Hmm... it's recommended in NC that the classroom teachers do Ty AnnM : Agreed, Sandy! AFL DannyH : will a computer make a difference in a student's learning? Wigster : Hi all! AFL DannyH : used properly? AFL Gayle : it. (True statement, though I don't agree with it.) AFA Bard : Welcome Makani! AFL Cheryl : hey Wiggy!! LTNS!! AFL Gayle : [[[[[Jim]]]]] Not a Snow Bunny, huh? ;) MaryEz : Are you all dusted off, Wig? Wigster : Hiya, Cheryl! AFL DannyH : that's like saying a calculator will make a hugh difference if used properly Ty AnnM : Danny, it can only make as much difference as the teacher makes it? (awkward wording) DUNMORE : Yes a comp. does make a diff. at all levels. We have proff in the improvement in writing skills AFL DannyH : Wiggy! Wigster : And it's been years since Ihave seen Danny. Hiya, Danny! MaryEz : It will, Danny! AFL DannyH : Jim, how the heck have you been doing? DUNMORE : When the kids have a chance at the computer they write more. MakaniL : Hello all. MaryEz : and better! SandyE : I agree Ty Ann. The most successful projects have been when the teacher and I prepared a worthwhile AFL DannyH : is that because a computer makes things easier, or sparks a student's interest? Wigster : Doing okay... although my muscles are mighty sore shoveling all that snow! :) BobFrost : They proof their work better when it's printed SandyE : lesson that revolved around the curriculum! AFL DannyH : what does a computer offer? MaryEz : The ScrapBook essays are magnificent this time. They improve each time. AFL DannyH : ease of use? AFL Gayle : Muscles sore? I thought you were in shape, Wiggy? ;) AFL DannyH : interest? MaryEz : easy editing, publishing by telecommunication. SandyE : Agreed Dunmore. Some of the most reluctant writer (special ed kids) have become downright prolific. LavonneS : LD kids write 3 or 4 short sentences with a pencil;They write 3 or 4 paragraphs with WP AFL DannyH : stay indoors Jim, that snow will go away on its own Wigster : In shape for swimming... and I have done a fair amount of shoveling this year... But not this much!! DUNMORE : With teh whole lang movement they are researching more too. The CD enc is always in use. Less plageris AFC Tooter : Computers encourage all the issues that most of us talk about, interdisc leanring, active learning, AFL DannyH : okay ease of use when writing? anything else? AFC Tooter : real world projects, SandyE : Both Danny! the kids find it easier to edit and not have to re-write, re-write, re-write those drafts LavonneS : Some soon are writing 3 or 4 pages, then the WHOLE darn book Ty AnnM : Our kids are very visual. To quote Fred D'Inazio, they have been through Nintendo bootcamp! WE can't Ty AnnM : teach them primarily in a print medium. AFC Tooter : cooperative learning. Computers can push reform of education. Ty AnnM : D'Ignazio - oops BobFrost : The SS projects will be the final outcomes of research on states. AFL Cheryl : I have only managed to shovel 1/2-way to my car...gave up :( AFL DannyH : then some of you think that computers may be a big key to the future of MaryEz : video making, cooperative working SandyE : Absolutely! Lavonne. They love to word process. AFA Bard : Welcome Friar. :) AFL DannyH : eductaion? BobFrost : It's a first for our school to have a wholly computerized project as final DUNMORE : Cooperative ed flurishes with computers . Tom Snyder has some real winners Friar 4 : Friar in a bad mood :( AFA Bard : Key, Danny? Maybe a tool without which education will founder? Ty AnnM : Coopertation at the computer is the best kind of learning. I have 4 8th graders wroking on a GTV show AFA Bard : Why Friar? Snow got you down? AFC Tooter : Definitely, Danny. AFL DannyH : how does the rest of the world rank in computer use in eductaion? AFC Tooter : FRIAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Friar 4 : Providence robbed - not invited to NCAA Ty AnnM : on the casualties of war - deep stuff for 13 yera ols! AFL DannyH : we all know where America stands in relation to education elsewhere AFC Tooter : Long time no see, Friar! LavonneS : The spell checker and teacher help = its OK to edit this thing! Wigster : Danny... I can tell you about England... They have a whole computer section of their new Wigster : National Curriculum... Ty AnnM : (Can't blame the baby for my typing this week -he's fast asleep!) AFL DannyH : do the Japenese for one utilized computers? Friar 4 : Friar very elusive - especially when in bad mood :( Wigster : Teachers are having to play catch-up now. SandyE : I also find much cooperative learning going on in the lab. Kids working on projects together. AFL DannyH : but Jim, do the schools in England have computers AFC Tooter : Sorry your in a bad mood, Friar. How can you be in a bad mood with schooolcancelled tomorrow? SandyE : One 8th grade class is preparing Kid Pix Slide shows about Careers of the 90's and on. AFA Andy : All Countries with the resources are using computers heavily, Danny. AFC Tooter : Fantastic, Sandy! DUNMORE : The Japanese have them for science and engineering not wp SandyE : Each team is researching a career and will present the slide show to the class. I LOVE KID PIX! Ty AnnM : Yes, Sandy. The computer screen is less personal that the paper. THat can be a problem on private AFC Tooter : Do you have a scanner, Sandy? AFL DannyH : what countries have the resources, the US definately has the resources AFL DannyH : only if we would use them Ty AnnM : writings, but fo rthe most part it is wonderful how the students help each other. AFA Andy : But the US doesn't see education as important. AFL DannyH : resources = western Euorpe? LavonneS : I have LD students preparing a multimedia report on endangered Sea Turtles for presentation Sci week. SandyE : Yes, Toot (again, Thanx Bard!). They love to scan. AFA Andy : Britian, Germany, Japan all use computers in education. AFA Bard : Andy... I think folks in the US see education as important, they just don't understand how to AFA Bard : fix things. :) AFC Tooter : Does anyone know of any schools that have made significant use of computer withoput a comp coord? AFA Bard : GREAT question, Tooter AFA Andy : That could be Bard, in GA but here :( AFC Tooter : I did some nice things scanning student pictures into KidPix. AFL Gayle : Loaded question, Toot. AFL DannyH : I don't think computers will make the big difference, I think mores and ... LavonneS : They are using Animal Pathfinders from Scholastic that used video disk player AFL DannyH : society as a whole will make the difference Ty AnnM : Yes. North Tama/Traer in Iowa has a team of teachers that are paid extra to develop technology Wigster : If you saw how they treat education up here at the town meetings, you would realize that they don't Wigster : value education... AFL Gayle : Do you have a computer coordinator, Toot, or are you trying to get one? Ty AnnM : in their school. One of the best equipped places in the state and they use them, too. AFL DannyH : again Jim we are talking society vlues AFA Bard : Another question is... will computer coordinators always be necessary? Remember when most schools had BobFrost : Our lab existed for two years with minimal use until I got my 1/2 day job. Wigster : Quote from the pape: "School board tells superintendent to cut budget by 10%, but... AFC Tooter : Danny, computers can't fix society, but they can help reform schools to make them more relevant to SandyE : I live in a dream world..How anyone in this day and age NOT value education? Wigster : don't make it hurt." AFC Tooter : our students and make education more effective. MaryEz : The property tax is not the way to pay for education because you are at the mercy of the AFA Bard : reading teachers (of ILT's)? Folks caught on and then the need moved elsewhere. Ultimately, I'd like MaryEz : revolting taxpayer. BobFrost : Now it is used in the a.m. by my classes and most p.m by others. AFL DannyH : what is the drop out rate for the US as a whole? AFA Bard : to see teachers comfortable/capable enought not to need to rely on computer coordinator. Then that AFL DannyH : how many 18 year olds do not finish high school each year? AFA Bard : person (coordinator) could focus on REALLY exciting stuff- cutting edge- etc. Make sense? Wigster : At the same time, if you depend on the state for money rather than property taxes... AFC Tooter : You're right, Bard, but computers will also become more invisible. That may be the most important Wigster : when times get tough, the first thing to go is the education funding. AFA Andy : With the way technology is moving so fast I think you will always need people AFA Andy : to train teachers. AFC Tooter : thing that may remove the need for Comp Coords. BobFrost : If tech. would slow down then coordinators would not be needed Ty AnnM : That won't happen until technolgy becomes like a toaster - plu and play. Still too many glitches! SandyE : Makes LOTS OF SENSE to me BW!!! ): ): SandyE : OOOPS That was :) ): LavonneS : Ty Ann, where are you, I grew up in Toledo Ia. ! Wigster : If the schools keep buying clones (like my school) then there will always be room for us coordinators. AFC Tooter : I don't think so, Bob. Nor do I think tech should slow down. Ty AnnM : I live in Waverly and work in New Hampton. AFL DannyH : no one is from Toledo Ia, the place does not exist! AFC Tooter : Apple IIs are tricky enough that they require lots of attention and knowledge. Newer computers need l AFC Tooter : less. Ty AnnM : Don't let the people living there know that! AFC Tooter : The tendency is to make them invisiblem but we are not there yet. BobFrost : Most classroom teachers don't have the time (or drive) to pick up on LavonneS : That's probably true now but in the good ole days it was the place to be!! BobFrost : new stuff. AFL Gayle : Tech. is not going to slow down, Bob. Tech. keeps booming rather than declining Wigster : Toot... The teachers have no problems with the Apple IIs... I am spending all day showing them how Wigster : to run the IBM clones. AFL Gayle : Whether educators GET the techie things is a different story. AFL DannyH : place to be, Lavonne, or to be form?:) BobFrost : I know about the growth. I'm still trying to learn to keep their Macs up. AFC Tooter : That is true, Bob. Not sure why Bard thinks that computer coord can't be on cutting edge now. Ty AnnM : Agreed, Wigster. The Apple II succeeded because it was easy to run. The Mac scares people! SandyE : I agree Bob. My teachers still want me to hold their hands. They are VERY busy folks! AFL DannyH : back to the effectiveness of the schools, is money the answer? computers? LavonneS : TO BE FROM is about it:) AFA Bard : Kind of strange that 1983 Apple technology is still easier than PC clones. :) We knew that, though.:) AFL Cheryl : the Mac SCARES people????? LavonneS : The Mac is easier than the II ever was !! Wigster : We don't seem to have too much trouble with the macs... as long as the hard drives work... but AFA Bard : Not really what I meant, Tooter. It's just that much time is spent now in raising the awareness level MaryEz : Righto! Bard! AFL DannyH : that's true Lavonne BobFrost : I'm also supposed to be running IBM mini-lab but I can't give it the time Wigster : if a kid messes with the system files... watch out!!! AFC Tooter : I disagree. The Mac and Windows DOS will make things simpler. They are also morereliable. Ty AnnM : Teachers in the industrialized Asian schools have almost a 1/2 day of planning time. Most teachers I BobFrost : when I have to teach regular class in the p.m. SandyE : I think the Macs are a LOT less intimidating than the DOS machines. Once you go Mac you never go Back AFA Bard : of teachers and doing "basic" staff development. I think most tech. coords. DO get into cutting Ty AnnM : don't have time to go tot the bathroom! AFA Andy : I have no problems with either, Lavonne. AFA Bard : edge stuff- when the administrivia is over with. :) DUNMORE : We form support groups to learn stuff. On is great on graphics another on scanning I'm online AFC Tooter : However, they still need to be taught to teachers. More importantly, teachers need to be fed ideas fo AFC Tooter : for how to use them. Wigster : Right, Toot... AFL DannyH : industrailized Asian countries? Japan? Singapore? Austrailia? Hong Kong? Wigster : and I think we coordinators have to learn how to approach the teachers so they don't run when they see BobFrost : Best idea I've had this year was getting parents to input handwritten Wigster : us coming! AFL DannyH : is there anymore? AFL DannyH : Korea? Ty AnnM : Japan and Korea for sure. DUNMORE : You just have to have the puters and light the spark the teachers &kids will fan the fire AFC Tooter : Administrivia!!!! Love it! BobFrost : stories from third grades then kids can edit and use time better. AFA Andy : Denmark also uses computers heavily. LavonneS : Is anyone using At Ease on the Mac? No problem with system files. or the TRASH can. AFL DannyH : I think you would have to say the US uses computers heavily DUNMORE : we have At Ease it kepps things safe AFA Andy : Not in eductaion, Danny. BobFrost : Teach the parents to use the computer and then they want to see more Ty AnnM : I'm looking at several programs now, Lavonne. Can any one recommend others? BobFrost : use in the class. AFL DannyH : sure we do AFC Tooter : I think the best way to teach the teacher is through the kids and the other way around. In other Wigster : I would love to use At Ease... If only it came with the computers... I don't like having to buy it Wigster : extra. SandyE : AMEN, Dunmore. DUNMORE : At Ease comes with LCII'S AFC Tooter : words, keep training a core of teachers to implement projects and support each other. AFL DannyH : and it is of no small import that almost 90% of the software is written in the AFL DannyH : US LavonneS : KidDesk is nice with K-1 Wigster : It doesn't come with LCIIIs. :( MaryEz : It iscoming with the Mac LC III. We use it and love it. Makes life much easier, Wiggy. SandyE : AtEase. There's a familiar word. Some schools are using it. We are looking at other front ends also Ty AnnM : I din't have a problem with the Mac lab untl I was gone on maternity leave this year - then BOOM! Wigster : I just got an LC III and I didn't get it. :( DUNMORE : Try KABOOM AFL DannyH : I think teachers are TOO enamored with computers, computers are GREAT but... AFL DannyH : they are not the end all AFL DannyH : wow, no one yellin yet? AFL Gayle : What did you need another Mac for, Wiggy? :) Ty AnnM : I agree, Danny, but hey are going to be an important part of our students' lives. AFC Tooter : That's true, Danny, but look at the group you are talking to. This is the computer cutting edge gang. Wigster : Gayle... It's my first color Mac. Ty AnnM : More like bleeding edge, Tooter! AFL DannyH : Jyou know Tooter, you are right, I did not think of that AFC Tooter : Supposed to be a great machine, Wiggy! AFA Bard : Welcome Roger! Glad to see Snow Jam '93 didn't get you! SandyE : I agree Danny, they are not the end all. They are just a marvelous tool that turns kids on. AFC Tooter : And yet, Danny, they are a very powerful tool for school reform as I said above. MaristR : I haven't been out since Friday. They finally called off school. Wigster : I love it, Toot... It's faster than a IIci.... although it doesn't have a NuBus slot... BobFrost : When kids stop me in the hall and ask if they get to come to Lab today AFL DannyH : does the schools actually need reform? Wigster : But heck, it sure is a lot faster than my old SE. :) BobFrost : I think it means they like what we do. AFL DannyH : I guess so, if I used does for a plural:) MaristR : Bard, we just got a IIvi and a Quadra 70. Ty AnnM : My Se still meets my needs at home. AFL DannyH : and can't type either:) DUNMORE : We have to meet the kids where they are Nintendo,and cartoons compete with us You have to AFC Tooter : Yes, Danny because society won't reform. AFA Bard : Ooooo.. jealous, Rog! AFL DannyH : any suggestions Tooter? AFL DannyH : what is the first step? DUNMORE : get on their wavelength and computers helpto do that. AFC Tooter : We can't restore family life as easily as we can change curriculum. AFL DannyH : more money? SandyE : Roger...a Quadra...is is Xmas? AFL DannyH : private schools? MaristR : I haven't had a chance to play with them yet. We also got a CD and multi media system to go with them AFL DannyH : private organizations running schools for a profit? Ty AnnM : Money is not the answer to all school problems if it is not used better! DUNMORE : Private schools don't have them execpt for the elite AFL DannyH : change the curricula to what? Ty AnnM : If we don't do something, people like Whittle will! SandyE : I think more respect for teachers would go a long way to improving things. Who was it before who SandyE : said the parents question every teacher decision? AFL DannyH : is Whittle all wrong? AFC Tooter : Danny, build a curric in which computers are integrated into instruction as a tool for research, AFC Tooter : analysis, and presen5tation. Wigster : To begin with, Danny... There has to be more teacher control... right now, everything is run AFL DannyH : respect for teachers=society changes AFL DannyH : teacher control of what? Ty AnnM : No, I agree with many of his concepts, but here I do have a problem with education-for-profit. Wigster : by the politicians... They are the ones deciding how schools should be run. Do you want a politician SandyE : AMEN, Toot! That is how I see their best usage. AFL DannyH : the budget? Wigster : responsible for your child's education????? AFC Tooter : Use them all over the place and have students involved in team and solo interdisc projects. AFL DannyH : the curriculum? BobFrost : Our new "technology" curriculum will be written into existing curricula. AFL DannyH : what problem do you have Ann? AFL DannyH : this is fun! AFL DannyH : I will come here more often Ty AnnM : You must like the role of devil's advocate, Danny! LavonneS : Danny, you really challenge us :) Are you gathering fuel for a fire? AFL DannyH : no not the devil's advocate, truly interested in a perplexing problem? AFL DannyH : I don't believe there are any fast easy solutions AFC Tooter : A problem that will not be solved with just a single answer, Danny. Ty AnnM : I read some Whillte "leaks" on Friday. I like the concept of getting parents involved, master teacher SandyE : Do other nations have educational problems at this time? Are their kids NOT into Nintendo etc. AFL DannyH : but what if we could have a nationaly policy? AFL DannyH : yeah I know that involves more gov Wigster : There are no fast easy solutions... There are as many solutions as there are schools... No one Ty AnnM : ,etc. I think that the scholasrship thing for poorer stduetnns is a smoke screen AFC Tooter : Is Nintendo really the problem, Sandy? Wigster : solution will work with all schools. Ty AnnM : Public schools will be robbed of many of the best students. AFL Gayle : Please DO come more often, Danny! :)) LavonneS : Sandy, is there any learning potential on the Nintendo? How can we hook kids into learning BobFrost : Nintendo is the metaphor for: working parents, single parents, TV, etc. AFL DannyH : I for one think there is not a major problem with the schools or teachers LavonneS : like the Nintendo hooks them? SandyE : I use Nintendo as a general word. I mean cartoons, the immediate gratification syndrome. AFC Tooter : Definitely, and the solution can not be found at the national level, but minimum standards can be AFC Tooter : implemented from the Nat'l level. AFL DannyH : I think society itself is sick and getting sicker AFL Cheryl : Nintendo is banned in my house. Ty AnnM : If the R&D that went into games development went into education, think of wher we'd be! AFL DannyH : until the attitudes and values of the incoming students reflect a AFA Andy : Sandy, that has to do with the values children learn at home. :( Wigster : I do think there is a problem... The HUGE amounts of money being spent... and the schools get worse. Ty AnnM : Way to go, Cheryl! BobFrost : Aren't teachers the best Rx for that sickness, starting at kid level. SandyE : Thanks, Bob, that's what I meant Nintendo=kids today's outlook on life. AFL DannyH : need for eductaion and a respect for the eductaional system, then it is AFL DannyH : a losing battle AFC Tooter : Definitely a problem, Sandy, but so are households where parents are absent and tardy. I find this at Wigster : So much money goes for admonistration in the big cities... That is a major problem. MaryEz : Why is that parents think videos are so great? Is that not looking at the tube, also? AFC Tooter : all levels of society. AFL DannyH : you can't teach someone that has no desire to learn MaryEz : Respect, period, Danny! AFL DannyH : outlook on life, thanks Sandy you said in a coulple of words what I could not Wigster : Right, Danny... That is a big problem... Perhaps we need to teach parenting sas well. AFL DannyH : expess in three sentences AFC Tooter : And you can't create a desire to learn where there is a need for love, direction, food, basics. AFL DannyH : maybe a two tier educational system like Germany Wigster : Yes! SandyE : Right on! Tooter. Teachers are being asked to be more and more to each student. Wigster : And get the businesses involved with the vocational stuff. BobFrost : I don't want kids tracked when they're young. Ty AnnM : This has been great, guys. Gotta drive to the grocery store (on dry pavement!). Bye. AFA Bard : If you really think about Nintendo- it's not the graphics that grabs kids- it's the way the feedback SandyE : Bye, Ty Ann. It's been great! AFL DannyH : bye Ann and do come back AFC Tooter : Bye TyAnnn BobFrost : Ty, how do we send SS? AFA Bard : is given and the quality of the reward- next level! Wigster : Bye Ty Ann! AFA Andy : I have to go open up ABF. Night all and have a safe week. :) AFA Bard : What a concept! AFA Bard : Nite, Andy! Wigster : Night, Andy! SandyE : Yes, Bard! Reward for a job done right! Wigster : Too late. SandyE : Nite, Andy AFC Tooter : Nite Andy. AFL DannyH : Cheryl, are you sick? you have been very very quiet LavonneS : Right, Nintendo gives reward - next level harder than the last. Educ could only reward that way :) SandyE : Waht's ABF? MaristR : Bard is the Online Conference still on for tomorrow? AFL Gayle : LOL, Danny. :) Wigster : Cheryl quiet??? She must be sick (or away from the keyboard!) AFL Gayle : ABF is the Beginners' Forum, Sandy. AFC Tooter : Agreed, Bard. Even providing access to up to date class record motivates kids. AFA Bard : Roger--- MicrosOnline is cancelled MOnday, but all Tuesday sessions will be as scheduled. :) MaristR : Will the Monday session be on Wednesday or will Tuesday be it? SandyE : Yes, Tooter. My teachers use Making the Grade and post grades (some weekly). This allows the kids LavonneS : I haven't been here in awhile, you guys are still on the ball, can hardly keep up all conversations!! SandyE : to see JUST how they are doing. GREAT MOTIVATOR AFL Gayle : Well, it's time to announce our free hour winner for tonight. AFL Gayle : *Drumroll* AFC Tooter : I post graphs with code names. It makes all the difference. Wigster : It was amazingly fast tonight!!! AFL Gayle : Our winner tonight is.... AFL Gayle : SandyE for the word AOL! :) AFA Bard : Yippeeeee Sandy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AFL Gayle : Congrats, Sandy! AFA Bard : >>>>>>>>> SANDY <<<<<<<<<< AFL Gayle : *Applause* SandyE : ALLLL RIGHT! Thanks, Gayle!