5/2/93 8:00:29 PM Opening "Chat Log 5/2/93" for recording. AFL Gayle : Welcome to the Apple Education Chat! Ask away! This is Bring Your Own Topic! :) AFC Tooter : I have a question. SandyE : OK..what do all think are some worthwhile professional orgs to join...I currently SandyE : am a member of ISTE (which I think is good), but have recently been solicited AFC Tooter : What is an ideal lab configuration to teach HyperCard and allow for individual student made stacks? SandyE : by a bunch of others. I guess I'm on mailing lists out the wazzooo AFC Tooter : Oh, sorry. Didn't mean to step on your question, Sandy. SandyE : No problem, I have some thoughts on HC as well AFL Gayle : Who else has solicited you, Sandy? AFC Tooter : As to prof orgs, what are the local ones. They probably need your efforts more tha nnational ones. SandyE : I wish I could remember the names. Most I toss in the can, but one sounded interesting and the paper SandyE : work is at my office...It's a national one and focuses on Tech in Educ. AFA Bard : I'm on the same wazooo lists, Sandy. I like ISTE, too. ASCD has some pretty good articles on AFC Tooter : If it came on Thursday or Friday, I think I got it too. AFL Gayle : AECT, perhaps? AFA Bard : technology. There's also TIE, who's represented online. :) AFC Tooter : I also keep getting notes from ASCD. SandyE : Yep, ASCD has been one that solicited me, but I didn't join. Yes, Toot, it came late last week. SandyE : Gayle, What AFL Gayle : TIE is online? Where, Bard? AFA Bard : ASCD is on the bleeding edge in several areas...it's a bit expensive, though. SandyE : is AECT? SandyE : The one I got last week wasn't cheap. $60 per year I think. AFC Tooter : The bleeding edge? Is that a soap opera? SandyE : LOL toot! SandyE : Hi Leni! AFC Leni : Hi, Sandy :-) SandyE : What's TIE AFA Bard : TIIE is represented online by TIIE Jim (Jim Carlysle). :)) AFC Tooter : The Q Leni: what do all think are some worthwhile professional orgs to join AFA Bard : You know what they say about Pioneers, Toot... AFC Tooter : Hi Leni :-))) AFL Gayle : Oh, TIIE. AFC Leni : ISTE, Technologyh in Education, Sandy :-) AFA Bard : Leni!!!!!!!!!!!!! AFC Leni : Hi, guys!!!!! AFC Tooter : [[[[L]]]]] AFC Tooter : AFC Leni : What a greeting! LOL AFC Tooter : _ AFC Tooter : |=| AFC Tooter : | | AFC Tooter : / .\ AFC Tooter : |-: | Doubly Bubbly AFC Tooter : | | | AFC Tooter : | . | |...| |...| AFC Tooter : |_|. | | :| |. | AFC Tooter : |. :| | .| | .| AFC Tooter : |_____|--------|___|-----|___|--- AFC Tooter : ready to *Ssplat* ? AFC Tooter : SandyE : Yep, Leni, International Society for Technology in Education... SandyE : Nice, Toot AFA Bard : Very nice, Toot. JUST what I needed! :) When did you get your PubTender license??? AFC Leni : More thatn ready! Scrapbook and Name that State ALL DAY! AFC Tooter : BRB, getting coffee. AFC Leni : see....I can't even type :-( SandyE : That's OK, I spent the day SNEEZING. That was fun too. AFC Leni : Allergies or a cold? SandyE : @#$!##$ Allergies...even the pills won't help today, YUK! AFC Leni : Poor thing....that's the pits! SandyE : Tooter, are you there? Let's talk HyperCard AFC Leni : Hi, Rachel :-) AFA Bard : Sneezing, Sandy? Hope it gets better before you have to go back and face the "raging hormones" at AFA Bard : Sweetwater MS! AFA Bard : Hi Rachel! AFL Gayle : BAD time for allergies, unfortunately. I love the sun, but it has its problems. AFC Tooter : I'm back. Yes, HC! AFA Bard : Toot's getting coffee...) If it's instant, he should return shortly-- if he had to fly to Columbia, SandyE : Leni, do people in California have allergies? AFA Bard : it could be a long wait. :) AFC Tooter : Coffee was gone. I got raspberry ice cream instead. AFC Leni : Oh, yes, Sandy! AFA Bard : Do people in California have noses? AFC Tooter : I need to think about how to put together a Mac lab for HC. RachelC426 : Hi, What is the subject? Middle School? SandyE : I've had the most luck by showing a number of stacks to kids first and discussing pros and cons. AFL Gayle : Raspberry ice cream? I'll take some! :) AFC Leni : Bard...you are ON, tonight! AFA Bard : Why not HyperStudio Mac, Toot? SandyE : Toot, do you have Rocky Road? I'll take a bowl SandyE : Can one order and recieve HS Mac now? No bugs? AFC Tooter : Perhaps, Bard. That's still uncertain, but I want to know how to configure the lab. AFC Tooter : Will a network do anything for me ? AFL Gayle : Subject is whatever YOU want to talk about, Rachel. Bring Your Own Topic! :) AFC Leni : I heard it will be available next weekend at CUE, Sandy. AFA Bard : HS Mac is available for order right now. It'll ship by mid month, I think. AFC Leni : See? AFC Tooter : And it looks BEAUTIFUL!!!! SandyE : For space considerations, Tooter. HC stacks can get big and I like to store them on the server AFC Tooter : I have a beta copy and the colors are wonderful. AFC Leni : Ohhhh.....lucky! AFC Tooter : But a server will become used up pretty quickly with 20 kids making HC stacks with sounds. SandyE : I've seen the animations that kids can do with HS Mac and they are wonderful (and no scripts, right?) AFC Tooter : Barbara Debs uses Syquest Cartridges. SandyE : Well, you can invest in some HD disks then....maybe that's better? AFC Tooter : HD disks are too small. Is HC netwrokable as a program? AFA Bard : We're going withthe Syquest Carts. in our newest labs, Toot. SandyE : Oh Yeah? Bard....Where? AFC Tooter : How many. One at each station??? Can't afford that. AFA Bard : Because HC is so CPU intensive, you should have one program per computer. It's not really networkable SandyE : I know...Collins Hill AFA Bard : but it's helpful to store the sound, art files on a central server. AFA Bard : Yes,Sandy... and all the new HS labs. AFC Tooter : Good idea, Bard. AFC Tooter : And run the Syquests off of the server? SandyE : OK, I'm green....what's the cost involved in SyQuest AFC Leni : Hi, Wigster :-) AFC Tooter : Can you do that? Wigster : Hi all! AFA Bard : Wiggggggyyyyy! AFC Tooter : Cheap, Sandy. You can get AFL Gayle : Jim! Hi! :)))) AFC Tooter : 44 meg Syquest drives for about $400. Each cartridge runs about $65. AFC Leni : (cheap?) AFA Bard : Yes, Toot-or off of ANY Mac on the network. Remember, with System 7.x, ANY device on the network, AFA Bard : no matter where it "lives" can be networkable/shared. SandyE : Does one need a Syquest drive for each workstation????? Wigster : Hiya, Gayle! I missed you when I was here last week (A new record for me, two weeks in a row!) :) AFA Bard : We get the 88 MB for around $600, the carts for $50 locally. That's the size we're going for. :) SandyE : These Syquests are external, right? I'm confused... AFC Tooter : I have two of them at home, one on my GS and one on my Mac. AFA Bard : No,Sandy. Just one- and multiple cartridges. They are EXTERNAL. AFC Tooter : Yes, Sandy. Wigster : I want Toot to adopt me!!! AFC Leni : LOL AFC Tooter : Happily, Wiggy. AFC Leni : He is just showing off, Wiggy :-) AFC Tooter : I mentioned that because I have found a major difference in the two. AFC Leni : Hi, Dmj :-) AFA Bard : Difference, Toot? AFC Tooter : I have an APS drive and when I take the cartridges out they are hot to the touch. AFC Tooter : I also have a TMS drive and they come out mildly warm. AFC Tooter : Both drives sell for about $400. SandyE : So if I buy a Syquest, do I attach it to one station and then what? RachelC426 : Has anyone used the new ClarisWorks upgrade? Comments? AFA Bard : Do either of these devices have an internal fan, Toot? AFC Tooter : I assume both do. Susan G2 : Hi all! AFC Leni : Hi, Susan!!!! AFA Bard : Sandy-- it works no different than an external hard disk. AFC Tooter : Good question, Rachel. SandyE : Only at a demo, Rachel, but I've heard it's marvelous and what I tried at the demo was nice AFA Bard : Susan!!!! Susan G2 : What's going on? SandyE : For $29, I plan to buy one copy and "play" Susan G2 : What is marvelous and only costs $29. AFC Leni : $29 for the upgrade, Sandy? AFA Bard : I was a beta tester for CW 2.0, Rachel. VERY nice, but the new PAINT module is a memory-eater!:) AFC Tooter : Is $29 the upgrade price? AFL Gayle : Bring Your Own Topic, Susan. What do you want to talk about? AFC Leni : When did 2.0 come out? SandyE : $29 for the CW 2.0 upgrade is what a friend in Iowa told me...Anyone know TyAnnM? AFC Tooter : What is new on version 2.0? Susan G2 : Well I want to know what is $29 and Marvelous that is for sure. AFC Tooter : Everyone knows TyAnnM :-) AFA Bard : It began to ship in retail channels last month. Education channel upgrades/new product will ship AFA Bard : this month. SandyE : I've heard the Database is better, and the graphics too.. AFA Bard : 2.0 features a fully-featured PAINT module (to accompany the DRAW module already there), it's also SandyE : Bard, don't you have it? AFC Leni : Hmmmm....so the Claris works I bought 6 weeks ago is now upgraded? AFA Bard : System 7 savvy- with publish/subscribe support. It has a dandy OUTLINER and offers some additional RachelC426 : I have an LC II and I've really had problems with memory size for my paint program..Ultra Paint SandyE : Yes, Leni, isn't technology wonderful? AFA Bard : features in the spreadsheet, as well as some tool enhancements in the other modules. Very nice. AFC Leni : Argh! AFC Tooter : Do you have VIRTUAL MEMORY on, Rachel? AFA Bard : Leni--you should get a FREE upgrade. Did you send in your warranty card??? AFA Bard : Are you running System 7, Rachel? AFC Leni : Yes. AFA Bard : What kind of error message do you get? RachelC426 : How does that work? I'm a rookie as you can tell. AFC Tooter : upgrades, that's just the software companys' way of proving that we only rent their software. SandyE : WHOA! How does one get a FREE upgrade? Susan G2 : How does Claris works compare to Microsoft works? AFC Tooter : In the CONTROL PANEL, Rachel, choose MEMORY. You'll see the button for VIRTUAL MEMORY. AFC Leni : Most people seem to like it better, Susan. AFA Bard : There's a "window", Sandy. I think it "opened" in March. Anyone who bought CWorks after that are due RachelC426 : Susan, I think CW is a much better program but its just what your use to. AFC Tooter : It allows you to use a portion of the hard drvie as if it were RAM. AFA Bard : a free upgrade-- IF you sent in your warranty card. :) AFC Leni : For everyone, or recent buyers,Bard? AFC Tooter : I think Gayle is sleeping through the Mac talk. AFC Leni : Sorry....just saw that you already answered that. RachelC426 : If I turn it on does it affect other appliccations on my computer? AFL Gayle : No. Gayle is listening. AFA Bard : Free for those who bought after March... check the CLARIS forum for specifics, though. (KEYWORD: AFA Bard : CLARIS) AFC Leni : Thanks. Susan G2 : Rachel, I tended to crash more when it was on. But other people never had any problem. AFC Tooter : No Rachel. It just gives you a bit of extra space for any applications you have open. AFA Bard : Susan...have you checked the memory allocated to the UltraPaint application? (Use GET INFO)? SandyE : If you have any HD space left....which on my 4/40s at school, I don't have much... AFC Tooter : I never had a problem, but don't make it too large. I assume you have 4 megs of RAM in your LC? RachelC426 : Thanks this is really interesting and helpful. AFA Bard : Sometimes INCREASING that number by 512 or so will help. SandyE : I've been having bunches of problems lately opening more than one application at a time. RachelC426 : I'll check and see about you suggestions. SandyE : I keep getting not enough memory messages. AFC Tooter : If you have 4 megs of RAM, I think you can set the VIRTUAL as high as 8 megs. Do you know the guideli AFA Bard : You're just getting too smart for your machine, Sandy.:) AFC Tooter : lines for that, Bard? SandyE : Then when I rebuild desktops, all is well for a while, then out of memory again RachelC426 : Same here SandyE. Should have bought a Quadra! Susan G2 : How much memory do you have Sandy? AFC Tooter : LOL, Bard. SandyE : Amen, Rachel! AFA Bard : Right, Toot. About 2x is the max. It's recommended that you have extra HARD DISK space, though - AFA Bard : remember, that's what VIRTUAL MEMORY uses. :) SandyE : At school, I have 4 megs of memory, Susan RachelC426 : I have 4 megs at home. SandyE : Does memory get "fragmented" like HD space? Susan G2 : Yup I used to have five and couldn't keep more than one application open. Susan G2 : Now I have nine but don't use more than 8 because I'm afraid to use 32 bit addressing. SandyE : With 8 megs at home, I have not had any problems yet, even with HyperCard, CW, Kid Pix and The Writing RachelC426 : Would disk doubler help my memory problems.? SandyE : Center all open at once. AFA Bard : Yep, Sandy. Remember that rebuilding the desktop also clears out hidden files that are opened temp- AFA Bard : orarily by some applications. There's a utility in the MUT forum that'll allow you to rebuild it auto AFC Tooter : Don't be afraid of 32 bit addressing, Susan. All it will do is cause the application not to open. AFA Bard : matically,I think. AFC Tooter : Also, Susan, you can get to that extra meg with a program called MAXIMA by CONNECTIX. Susan G2 : Well I don't want that to happen, Tooter, I am not a risk taker when it comes to the computer. SandyE : Hey, Toot, I remember Maxima!!! AFC Leni : LOL, Susan AFC Tooter : Disk doubler will compress any file on your hard drive. Usually it cuts each in half. SandyE : Disk Doubler can be a pain. Is that the one that undoubles every time you open the file and re-double Susan G2 : Is it worth it to buy a program for 1 mg? AFC Tooter : No, Susan. If it won't open, all you have to do is go back to 24 bit and all will be well. It won't RachelC426 : Will it make my computer run faster? AFC Tooter : cause any damage. SandyE : when you're done with it. It seems to take a while Wigster : I used DD last year in my last school. I hated it... took to much time. AFA Bard : Warning... those disk doublers can cause trouble... just ask any DOS user who's jumped too quickly to AFC Tooter : Yes, Sandy. AFA Bard : upgrade to DOS 6.0. We've had 20 users lose hard disks. :( SandyE : I couldn't agree more, Wiggy! Susan G2 : I agree to Wigster Susan G2 : I like auto doubler though RachelC426 : The new ClarisWorks upgrade package has DiskDoubler as a throw in if you buy for $69. SandyE : How does auto doubler work? AFC Tooter : I agree, Wiggy, but it is an inexpensive way to make more hard drive space. AFA Bard : Welcome,Adam. This is an OPEN CHAT. Jump right in, if you wish! :) Susan G2 : Sandy, Autodoubler compresses your files automatically in the background SandyE : Actually, my files are not the problem. They are relatively small; it's the applications. Wigster : Yeah... It did give us extra room. But heck, when I bought this computer, I bought a 160 meg HD. AdamR : I think that both AutoDoubler and DiskDoubler compress in the bg though. SandyE : Wigster!!! 160 Meg...Will YOU adopt ME? Susan G2 : That is my dream Wigster among other things. I want a lot toys though. SandyE : I definitely need more HD space and more memory on the teacher station in the lab (listening, Bard?) SandyE : When I scan with the Apple One, I can't even copy and paste sometimes. SandyE : I'm not complaining (did it sound like that?) RachelC426 : Thanks for the help!!See you. SandyE : I just love that scanner to death! Susan G2 : Well Sandy at least you have a scanner. That is one of my wishlist toys. SandyE : Bye, Rachel, good luck! AFA Bard : ;) Sandy. Give 'em an inch...they want a QUADRA! :) AFC Leni : LOL AFC Leni : (I sure do!) SandyE : Actually, I want a duo-dock as soon as they put a disk drive in it. SandyE : I heard the Duo sales were down and Apple was trying to figure out how to improve sales. AFC Tooter : I don't see much likelyhood of a duo with built in floppy drive. The whole point of the duo it to be AFC Tooter : as sleek as posssible. AFA Bard : Uh huh... itmay be "slightly ahead of it's time"... I agree with Toot... I like my Duo 230 just fine - SandyE : Yes, Toot, but I can't imagine being anywhere without a disk drive. I'm just weird that way. AFC Tooter : Sounds interesting, Bard. Wigster : Well, they are advertising the Duos on TV now so that might help. AFA Bard : although lugging around the mini-dock and external drive "just in case" is a bit tough. :) AFA Bard : Really,Wiggy??? Good commercials? AFC Tooter : Then you need a regular PB, not a duo. I got a 160 for similar rerasons. SandyE : Toot, do you ever hook your 160 to an external monitor? Wigster : I saw it today (CBS Sunday Morning, I think).... It was kind of a boring ad... geared to business Wigster : people. AFC Tooter : I hook it to an LCD projection panel. AFC Tooter : Hi Lavonne! SandyE : COOL!! Do you leave the battery in? AFC Leni : Hi, Lavonne :-) AFA Bard : Hiya, Lavonne!!!!! LavonneS : Hi everybody SandyE : I've seen Bard do that also (hook to an LCD) AFC Tooter : You always leave the battery in, even when plugged to the wall. AFC Leni : Hello, Headegg :-) AFA Bard : Welcome Headegg! SandyE : The reason I ask about the battery is that a friend of mine (Sherah--Bard) had her 160 die while it AFC Tooter : The instructions tell you not to even think of plugging with the battery out. SandyE : was hooked to a monitor Susan G2 : Why is that Tooter? SandyE : The battery was HOT, and we took it out for a while. I never read that you shouldn't plug it SandyE : in with the battery out, but that solved the problem. Then the battery cooled and all was well SandyE : Yes, why is that Toot? SandyE : Tooter must have gone for that coffee (or more ice cream) Wigster : Perhaps to keep you from forgetting to put it back in for a recharge, perhaps? AFC Tooter : I don't know why. I just do like I'm told. AFL Gayle : He's probably loading up his foodfight macros, getting them ready. ;) LavonneS : We have a student that needs a computer for all writing. What powerbook would you recommend? SandyE : I still think the 160 is a deal....Bard? Tooter? AFC Leni : Night, all.....good chat, as usual :-) Wigster : night, Leni! SandyE : Nite, Leni...rest well. Susan G2 : night leni AFL Gayle : Well, it's time for our free hour! AFL Gayle : But first, a word from our sponsor. :) AFA Bard : Ithink so, too, Sandy. The key with the monitor is NEVER, NEVER plug it into the LCD unless AFA Bard : everythings turned OFF. AFC Tooter : I love my 160 and the Apple service that picked it up thursday and may send it back to me tomorrow. Wigster : I think the 160 is good... Although I just bought a 170 (Apple had a bunch left over) for a great AFL Gayle : Next week, spend your day with your mother instead of AED Chat. Our topic on Wigster : price. AFL Gayle : May 16 will be HyperMedia. AFL Gayle : Our free hour winner is Sandy for the word professional! AFL Gayle : *Applause* Wigster : <--- Will be in concert next week. AFA Bard : Of course, some of us can send greeting to our mom Online. :)) Wigster : Yay, Sandy! AFA Bard : Yeah... SANDY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SandyE : Thank you!! I need it! AFA Bard : ()()()()()()() AFL Gayle : Thanks to all for coming and good night! :) AFA Bard : Gosh it was great to see ya'll again... Lavonne, Susan, Wiggy, Sandy, Toot. :) Wigster : Time for me to go. Night all. 5/2/93 9:01:20 PM Closing Log file.