Path: Across the Boards!/Teacher empowerment Subj: Teacher empowerment 93-10-12 11:16:18 EST From: PatrickD35 Posted on: America Online Hello fellow teachers! I am interested in getting your opinions on teacher empowerment. Is it becoming a reality? How much leeway are you being given in designing curriculum, choosing textbooks, discipline in the classroom? Are administrators giving more decision-making power to teachers? What is YOUR definition of empowerment? I would appreciate your brief (or not-so-brief) thoughts and opinions on this topic. I am preparing a short paper on the topic, but I am also very interested in the status and reality of this oft-used buzzword. Thanks again for your input. Answer here or E-mail. Path: Across the Boards!/Teacher empowerment Subj: Teacher empowerment 93-10-23 11:45:13 EST From: DanielW486 Posted on: America Online Our district is actually beginning to practice site-based management. I find it interesting that many of my colleagues are not comfortable about using their new "power". Depending on the principal, buildings in our district have varying degreed of opportunity to make decisions about budgets, curriculum, planning days and calendar. We even have contract language that guarantees that a joint decision making process will be followed, Path: Across the Boards!/Teacher empowerment Subj: Empowerment 93-11-06 00:14:52 EST From: TheXman101 Posted on: America Online I'm no longer teaching, but I've been around a couple of reform movements in the past four years. I'm increasingly suspicious of "empowerment" talk. Two issues to talk about: Politics of empowerment (do administrators, boards, etc., really want an empowered faculty? Unions and empowerment. Any comments? Path: Across the Boards!/Teacher empowerment Subj: Empowerment 93-11-10 20:20:07 EST From: ProfM Posted on: America Online The only way we are going to get teacher empowerment is to do it from the bottom up. The educational bureaucracy isn't going to give up its power. Here's how its done. Close your classroom door. Put paper over the windows and start doing whats necessary. Find the best book you can find on your subject. If the administration won't buy it for you copy it on the zerox machine until they do (Don't tell them about it though.) Set some standards of what skills and facts you want your students to know. Your the professional so you know what they can do. Now get busy and make it work. It may take years, its not easy, but it does works. I know.... everyone has a different situation and this won't work for them. Just excuses. ProfM Path: Across the Boards!/Teacher empowerment Subj: Empowerment 93-11-14 15:04:54 EST From: GNO Jawaid Posted on: America Online You're right, teacher empowerment has to come from the bottom up. However, the bottom in this case is the people who pay teacher's paychecks. The TaxPayers. If teachers are truly concerned about the well-being and solid education of their students, they must talk with the parents of said students, must involve them in as many ways as possible with the education process. Advocating massive copyright infringement is not the way to do it. See how well government works? Jawaid Path: Across the Boards!/Teacher empowerment Subj: Parents??? 93-11-14 18:32:55 EST From: AFA Andy Posted on: America Online One of the biggest problems I face as a teacher is that most parents don't care what happens at school. From 8-3 the children are the schools problem and the parents want NO part of it. andy Path: Across the Boards!/Teacher empowerment Subj: Andy... 93-11-15 20:25:07 EST From: GNO Jawaid Posted on: America Online I don't mean to sound hostile, but parents not caring what happens to their children at school is precisely the result of decades of liberal policies (promoted by the NEA) saying "The government can raise your kids better than you". What do you expect? Jawaid Path: Across the Boards!/Teacher empowerment Subj: Funny... 93-11-16 17:25:48 EST From: AFA Andy Posted on: America Online I never knew the NEA had that policy. I don't think you can blame anyone but the parents about not caring. The parents that do care are the ones that have the children that are at the top of classes and no what self-control means. Teachers have been complain about parents not taking a part in their childrens' education for as long as I can remember. Maybe things are just different here in the South. Andy Path: Across the Boards!/Teacher empowerment Subj: Here in the South 93-11-17 05:15:36 EST From: AFC Oli Posted on: America Online Funny, I never heard of that policy either. Yea, I teach in the South, and it's just about as you say, Andy. We try to teach 'em all, but the more successful ones tend to have parents or guardians who care enough to take part. Path: Across the Boards!/Teacher empowerment Subj: Power to the Teacher 93-11-20 13:49:29 EST From: ChrisKnopp Posted on: America Online Dear Pat, I have recently changed school districts and see this discussion from a new perspective. My new district is much smaller and definitely take teacher input much more seriously. The old district had much too much inertia (and feather bedding) to make any changes. But, probably more important than that, extra power requires taking on more responsibility. I see many teachers that are long in the tooth that will not take responsibility. They will not buy into new programs that could make the job easier for all of us. I see teacher as their own worst enemies. ChrisKnopp Path: Across the Boards!/Teacher empowerment Subj: Smaller is Better 93-11-21 13:54:50 EST From: BWCAW Posted on: America Online I would like to second Chris's previous message re: school size. I teach in a small district -- we don't have all the problems solved by any means, but we are able to make changes much faster than large districts. We have only a superintendent and 2 principals for administrative bureaucracy and still have lots of roadblocks. I can't imagine how difficult it must be to "climb out of the ground" with layer after layer of administrators! Path: Across the Boards!/Teacher empowerment Subj: Elitism... 93-11-25 14:23:49 EST From: GNO Jawaid Posted on: America Online "Parents don't care" sounds a lot like "We can do it better" (anti-school-choice), sounds a lot like elitism, to me. I'm not trying to insult any of you folks, I'm just saying it as I see it. The NEA has been vocally against voucher systems, because it will break their monopoly on government funds for education. Now we're hearing "teacher empowerment". I still don't understand why those who are being educated, and their parents, aren't being empowered. What about people who don't like condoms being passed out in schools? What about those who don't want their children to hear about Heather's Two Mommies? You're not hearing them because first, they don't speak out, and two, when they do speak out, the Establishment ridicules them, accusing them of being backwards racist/homophobes/whatever. I went through the public education system, and hated it. I didn't need "teacher empowerment", I needed "Jawaid empowerment". I was basically held back; I could easily have entered college when I was 16, but was told by teachers and administrators that the district did not approve of that, so I got to slug through two more years of taking meaningless exams (I never studied, I never had to study, because in effect I learned _nothing_ in school. I didn't learn anything from perhaps 5th grade to Freshman year in college). My children will not attend public school unless this is fixed. So, tell me how "teacher empowerment" will allow me to direct the course of my children's education to prevent wasting six years of their lives like six of mine were wasted. Jawaid Path: Across the Boards!/Teacher empowerment Subj: Making Lemonade 93-11-25 18:28:18 EST From: Presbyte Posted on: America Online I came to an accommodation with my school. I went ahead and took the college prep courses (and I did learn a few interesting things in those classes, I must admit); they looked the other way as I skipped out a day or two a week to play disc jockey at the regional college radio station. This ultimately turned into a job at the area's leading commercial pop station. I had fun, I learned something, and I didn't think that my time had been "wasted" (though I might have been able to do even better, certainly). I agree that what is needed is student empowerment. That's what it is all about (or should be, anyway). If a student has a strong desire to manage his or her own education, then schools should adapt to that, instead of forcing the student to adapt to "the program." -J Path: Across the Boards!/Teacher empowerment Subj: Student Empowerment 93-11-25 22:33:51 EST From: AFA Andy Posted on: America Online I think you guys need to think a minute. Everyone has certain levels of ability in certain areas. You guys are very smart and I agree your educational needs should have been more appropriate than what you may have had. But the average student in the school system today does not function at that level academically. I have no idea where the fault should be. But I know the fault does not fall on me. When I get a student in my class (7th grade) that reads at a second grade level I do the best I can but I have 32 kids per class and I must teach them all. You guys see education as important, as you should. But many adults don't see it the way you do. I can't tell you how many times I heard "I don't have no education, and I'm not doin' that bad." The average newspaper today is written on a third grade level, any idea why? Most working adults that read the paper couldn't read it if it was written on a high school level. Yes, there are major problems in education today, but it has taken decades to create the problem, you can't blame teachers for it. They have to follow the rules set down by each State. Teacher empowerment means that the teacher spends less time doing BS work and more time teaching. It means that if child's program needs to be changed because that child is functioning on a different level it can be done easily. You have to remember that teachers teach because they love kids and they love teaching them. It's not the money or the social status, because there isn't any! My brother works 3 days a week as a nurse, he has an associates degree. This year he will make 60K. I have three degrees and I'll be lucky to make 20K. I don't do this for the money, I do this because I care enough to do it. In a small nutshell, teacher empowerment will allow changes in the educational system on an individual basis that will create a better learning situation for each child. Also, I liked to know where the NEA gets so much government money? last I heard the money that the NEA has to operate came from paying members. I really don't follow the NEA much, maybe because in a small rural school system the NEA isn't such a big deal. As I was typing this I kept thinking of something someone told me once, never criticise others until you have walked in their shoes. I don't criticise programmers for bugs in their programs. Path: Across the Boards!/Teacher empowerment Subj: Amen, Andy 93-11-26 06:25:29 EST From: AFC Oli Posted on: America Online Very well said!! I invite those critical to spend a day with me, an 18 year veteran of middle school teaching on the "wrong side of the tracks." It would be an eye-opener. Oli Path: Across the Boards!/Teacher empowerment Subj: Moccasins 93-11-26 10:08:59 EST From: Presbyte Posted on: America Online As I heard it, it was an old American Indian saying, "don't judge another man unless you have walked a while in his moccasins." Actually, you SHOULD criticize programmers for bugs in their code. You are customers. You have a right, and an obligation to YOURSELF, to offer such criticism. And as customers of the educational establishment, taxpaying citizens (and often even the students themselves) have a similar right to criticize the services rendered by said establishment. I would like to remind everyone that I have not come down on teachers as a class (no pun intended), but on the entire system of public education and what it is has brought us. Any teacher who lives up to his or her calling, especially under the current circumstances, is salt-of-the-earth to me. My difficulties with the education establishment are similar to those I had with the VietNam and Persian Gulf wars. I hated the wars; I felt that those who got us into those wars had a lot to answer for; but I honored and respectred the soldiers who did the best they could in their respective situations. In California, we had a proposition up for vote this last November: 174. Detractors said that anyone could start a school, who could con the parents of 25 kids into enrolling the kids with him. It was said that the lack of "teacher quality control" would be bad for our kids. This, and other arguments convinced California voters to defeat 174 by a huge margin. But just suppose that the measure had passed. As I see it, this would have empowered teachers in a big way. Individual, credentialed teachers (how many thousands of them in California now?) would have been free, individually, or together with other, like-minded, qualified teachers, to form schools of their own. I read the proposition, and saw that it also sought to cut regulation and bureaucracy, especially for new schools formed under its provisions. Independence and freedom from needless overhead seem to be what teachers keep saying they need. As far as I could tell, Prop. 174 would have given it to them in a big way. So why did the proposition go down to such a lopsided defeat? (And mind you, I am not for vouchers; I prefer tax credits, but I'm certainly happy to consider a multitude of options...) Had I been the NEA or the CTA (Calif Teachers Association), I would have thought long and hard about opposing 174. Perhaps, had things turned out differently, those groups could have metamorphosized smoothly into professional associations, made up of thousands of "empowered" owner-operators, instead of remaining unions of mere employees. Oh well. Maybe next election. -J Path: Across the Boards!/Teacher empowerment Subj: Thanks Oli and Jim 93-11-26 13:47:53 EST From: AFA Andy Posted on: America Online Thanks Guys, Jim, your last post made me think a litle a more. The biggest misconception I see is the NEA is this big powerful machine everywhere, it is not. Oh, sure I'm a member of NEA and TEA. I really don't get much a benefit from NEA. School systems are different from county to county and there is such a wide gap between State and State. General preceptions that will work in one area of the country will transfer to others. I agree there are problems in education today. And those problems are caused many things, not just the educational system. Politics and parental attitudes are also a big factor, as well drugs, gangs, and socioeconomics. How can we change it, I'm not sure. But letting good teachers do their jobs as best they can would certainly be a step in the right direction. I can see the value in Proposition 174, Jim. I can agree with what you said about the good things it could have done, if passed. But CA is the only place I know anything like that has happened. Teacher Empowerment, I believe, is a step in the same direction and know one will vote on it. The largest obsticle to teacher empowerment are the teachers themselves. Most think of it as a new buzz word that means they will have more work to do. And let's not forget the central office. :) They see it as more work for them, also. The school I teach at now starting letting the teachers make more decisions on how they teach two years, last year standardise test scores went up 7 points. The test has a measure of error of +, - .5, so the 7 points improvement is statisticly significant, IMHO. a Path: Across the Boards!/Teacher empowerment Subj: A postscript 93-11-26 21:24:39 EST From: Presbyte Posted on: America Online As I look over my previous posting, I think I could have been a bit clearer about a couple of things: 1. Prop 174 was a voucher initiative. It allowed a $2600 state stipend to students who opted out of the public school system and into alternative schools. Such schools could pretty much be set up by folks who could get 25 students or more to sign up with them. While there were possibilities for abuse under this proposal, and opponents did have a point that many of the alternative schools would have been set up by those with a religious axe to grind, I still think that the plan had possibilities. Most opponents saw a flight of students and money from the public school system that could mortally wound it. Others saw a flight of capital from the public school system and into religiously-oriented schools (which does indeed seem like a violation of the separation between chuch and state). But I saw also a flight of teaching TALENT from the existing public school system to alternative schools -- precisely the flood of teachers eager to throw off their bureaucratic shackles and get back to TEACHING. Because I don't like vouchers as a matter of principle, I started out not liking 174 very much. But the more I thought about the liberating effect it could have on our teachers, the more I liked it. I think this aspect of the proposition was grievously ignored. Which brings me to my second point. 2. "The biggest misconception I see is the NEA is this big powerful machine everywhere, it is not. Oh, sure I'm a member of NEA and TEA. I really don't get much a benefit from NEA." - AFA Andy If I am right about the hidden pearl in Prop 174, then I'll say that you didn't get any benefit from your NEA membership. And how! Whether or not the various teachers' unions are as powerful as we average citizens believe them to be, it is a fact that, in California at least, the NEA and CTA pumped incredible amounts of money into the "defeat Prop 174" campaign. And some of the ads against 174 were pretty slimy, too. The more I think about it, the more I just don't get it. Why would these guardians of the earning power and working conditions of teachers oppose a measure that, whatever its faults, would have allowed pretty much any good teacher with a dream and 25 committed students to start a school, mostly unencumbered by bureaucracy? Yes, there would have been con-artists and incompetents out there, ready to take the money of the confused, the easily duped, or the desperate. But is this really any worse than the situation offered us by the overcrowded, understaffed, nearly ineffective public schools that so many of us see in our communities today? It is cold comfort to say that public schools are accredited, their teachers credentialed, and their charters are for "the public good." If my public school takes my tax money (and yours), yet graduates my son as an illiterate, should the school's credentials, accreditations, and noble charter excuse it any more than an educational snake-oil salesman who takes the money and runs, while leaving my kid in front of the tube? By contrast, if a few really committed teachers got out from under the yoke of existing bureaucracy and used their state stipends to graduate kids who could read, write, and think critically (dare I even hope with some scientific, epistemological rigor?), then so much the better. I get the feeling that, were more NEA/CTA members to look into the opportunities they passed up in opposing Prop 174, they would come away saying "we wuz robbed!" The good news is that Prop 174 proponents took the defeat not as a sign that Californians didn't want school choice, only that they didn't want that particular proposition (which also looked to me like it might not have survived a court challenge -- especially on the grounds of church/state separation). So perhaps next time, we'll get something that, like 174, gives an incredible business opportunity to dedicated teachers, but isn't quite as weak a piece of legislation. -J Path: Across the Boards!/Teacher empowerment Subj: Prop 174 93-11-27 22:55:36 EST From: EJulien Posted on: America Online Prop 174 was aimed at the top students. Competition works where there is a market. The top 12% are your market for the private schools that Prop 174 would serve. At the price per student that it offered the private school, what type of technology and equipment would be offered to the student. Do you really think that that price would buy computers, science labs, and lab equipment? What do you think would happen to the other 88% of the students in California? One of the reasons that it lost big in California had to be that it only addressed the college bound student. How would these empowered teachers start their own schools? Would you offer investment capital to a group of teachers? The main thing to consider about education is that there is no quick fix. Students must value education. Education must lead to a financial goal. If a student can train for a career that gives them a financial future, they'll value it. If they don't see a value, they don't put the effort in. Just because you offer a school that trains for a career doesn't cut it either--there has to be an actual job dangling at the end of the effort. We have a system where the rules are made at the local, state and national level with no consultation with either the student or the teacher. If something goes wrong, blame the NEA. I'm not a member of the NEA but if they really had this huge amount of power, don't you think you would see a better situation for teachers? Since they have been in power, class size has risen, safety for students and teachers has declined, and on and on. We need the rules made by the people who know what is going on--not as a knee-jerk reaction by some legislature. Just a guess--bet education improves when the economy improves. Path: Across the Boards!/Teacher empowerment Subj: A story in a Bay Area newspaper 93-11-27 23:57:20 EST From: Presbyte Posted on: America Online ...showed that the $2600/year per student was more than the full tuition charged by around 60% of Bay Area private schools, and there were many well-respected names in that 60%. In other words, with the proposed stipend, any student could afford to attend 3 out of 5 of all Bay Area private schools. Yes, I know, greater demand would push tuition up, but then there is that other matter of increased competition to offset the upward push on tuition... Speaking of increased competition, EJulien scoffs at the idea of "new schools" started by ambitious teachers, saying, "Would you offer investment capital to a group of teachers?" And I say, "why not?" I'm not wealthy by any stretch, but I value education. I could easily see myself buying shares in a co-op or educational corporation that employed (or was run by) a committed group of teachers. I'd look for some sound business sense in the management of the institution, before parting with my money, of course, but it would be the quality of the teaching team that would attract my interest in the first place. And EJulien, don't assume that I or anyone else here believes the NEA or CTA to be so all-powerful, or blames them for bad conditions in our schools. I DO blame them for the defeat of Prop 174, because it is a fact that they campaigned hard against it and helped to outspend 174 proponents by a large margin. Too bad all that money didn't go into the schools. Lastly, I point out that I personally was back-and-forth on 174 all the way to election night. And it was only very late in the game, after I had finally read the proposition for myself, that I began to realize the opportunity in it for teachers who were tired of the no-win status quo. As far as I could tell, Prop 174 was not only for the college-bound, and it proposed to do more for teacher empowerment than was generally believed. We'll see what happens next time. -J Path: Across the Boards!/Teacher empowerment Subj: Amendment 7 93-11-29 02:21:51 EST From: GNO Jawaid Posted on: America Online A voucher initiative was also voted down in Colorado during the last election. Opponents claimed it would destroy the public school system; in my mind, so much the better. The government has shown that in only two areas is it more efficient than private enterprise: national defense and regulation of interstate disputes. These days, the state governments are not much more than local arms of the huge federal bureacracy (consider the unending stream of "mandates" that states have to pay for). No education reform will work until that reform includes the ability of teachers and parents _together_ to set curriculum and take advantage of government money (which is, after all, their money). Jawaid Path: Across the Boards!/Teacher empowerment Subj: Scoffing 93-12-02 00:43:34 EST From: EJulien Posted on: America Online No one is scoffing at new schools. Walk into a bank and propose just that. See if they would like to back it up? The problems with our schools is a complex one and to think that a simplistic solution would handle it is just not realistic. To blame the whole problem on just one group is a cop out. Isn't it incredible that people whose experience in school was as a student are experts in what is wrong with them and how to solve the problems. No one is saying that you can't complain or that you can't offer solutions. Just do your homework!!!! Volunteer at your local school. Take a good look at Ed Code and see what rules schools have to follow. No one disagrees that the laws must be changed. But tell me how to get around the courts? Every student with a handicap must be served. Schools are required by law to hire nurses to monitor their condition. Schools must provide transportation to where their parents want them to go to school. The list goes on and on. Summer school must be provided for migrant ed students. Transportation, breakfast, and lunch must be provided. Do you really think that private schools do this? Do the 5 private schools in SF offer education for the lower and middle level student, the non college prep student? Do they have to offer vocational education. You are avoiding my question. What about the other 88% of the students. Will the $2600 pay for the machinery? the computers? the technology? Just try on the other guy's shoes--don't even worry about walking in them. Path: Across the Boards!/Teacher empowerment Subj: Empowerment 94-01-12 22:54:33 EST From: TLneilitz Posted on: America Online I would love to see empowerment to the teachers, the parents, the students, and the community. We have a push in WI to limit teacher pay increases and spending per pupil. To increase either our legislature is allowing us to take it to the taxpayers through a referendum. Meanwhile state spending is increasing for prisons, law enforcement, highways, athletic facilities and, oh yes, legislative salaries. Why can't we take those budget items to referendum? Now who was it that wanted the poer? Path: Across the Boards!/Teacher empowerment Subj: Re:Empowerment 94-01-12 22:56:32 EST From: TLneilitz Posted on: America Online Or was that power?